Son with ADHD, ODD & PDD

It's been awhile since my first e-mail. I've been trying to follow your information in your manual. Have started to reread the book to refresh myself with some of the instructions on how to control my son. He has still not gotten the picture that he has a problem that needs to be addressed, and worked on. He believes that everyone else is the problem and that no matter what he tries he is wrong. He'll take no advice or be willing to even learn from his own mistakes, which hurt him and then he complains that no one understands him, and won't help.

My son is now 20 (21 november) he was/ is diagnosed with adhd ODD pdd. now refusing to take his meds. his own research shows side effects, this scares him, thats why he refuses.

Question? thru your many studies and other parents that you have talked to, have you ever found that a child has over the years developed a symptom of paranoia, with anxiety attacks. and has become a habitual liar? he now breaks out with the terrible sweats, and is afraid that someone will break into our house and steal his Xbox games and systems, and the temperature needs to be at 60 degrees in the house. I'm not rich and can't afford the electric bill I just got, $375.00 for one month.

I’m going to be in touch with the U of PA. hospital Philadelphia Pa for reevaluation of his disorders as something drastic has change. It's also unfortunate that we had to loose our previous services because of an insurance change at work, they don't accept this insurance now, and we temporarily lost our medical assistance for his disability do to some paper work foul up that was recently resolved in court.

Can you make any suggestions as to what we might ask the hospital to be looking for? tests, blood work, brain scans etc. any thing will help. what type of assisted living facilities might be good for him so that he is not totally dependent on us, as it is really taking a toll on the wife and I. I just cancelled my vacation plans because he refused to stay at another family members home so that he could go to his part time job while we were away.

Thanks

L.

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Hi L.,

Albeit limited, the info you have provided suggests that your son may have Agoraphobia or Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. I would definitely look into these two diagnoses as a possibility.

Unfortunately, this may be a classic example of what happens to a child after years of over-indulgence. Your son will be 20-years-old, and he still lives at home playing Xbox. He does not have a clue about how to survive as an adult out in the real world.

Children with Pervasive Developmental Disorder (PDD) do have difficulty using and understanding language …difficulty relating to people, objects, and events …difficulty with changes in routine or familiar surroundings …and they exhibit unusual play with toys and other objects. So they are not easy children to parent – I understand this.

In any event, there is no known cure for PDD. Medications are used to address certain behavioral problems. If he is not willing to take his meds – and you go along with this – then you are employing an over-indulgent parenting style.

Begin helping him to help himself. This should be the first course of action. Hold him accountable for not taking his meds. Not taking meds needs a consequence -- and perhaps a serious one at that (e.g., him living elsewhere).

Mark

My Out-of-Control Teen

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Mark,

I will be looking into the additional diagnoses, which I already suspected but was told by therapist and other professionals? in the field he did not have these.

Over indulgence has not taken place with L___, as he was growing up just the opposite was happening things were not just given to him he had to earn them, or points to get privileges because of his bad temper bad behavior and not wanting to do anything that was asked of him, help with the cleaning, help make the beds help take out the trash, help, help, help, his answer was always NO. it's not my job!

He was diagnosed with PDD but as you explain it he shows no sign of these things. I think the professionals? put this on his charts as they could not come up with a better diagnoses.

As for meds they are out on the table for him to take, when i come home he hasn't taken them, then i try for hrs to have him take them. and then he gets mad enough that he starts to verbally threaten, I stop ...consequences lead to house destruction.

I know that the meds he is now taking do not help very much maybe 10%, he's been on so many over the years and nothing has really helped, some have just done the opposite made him worse. Professionals?

Yes I think you can here in my voice that even the system that he has been in, with hospital stays (4) counselors, therapist, behavior specialist, and I can go on, have not been much help with him or with us as a family trying very hard to stay together. wife, daughter (16) myself and L___. One DR. even told me in all the years of his practice (20) he has never seen someone like L___. I told him to do a case study and write a book on Larry.

Today my wife had enough and thought there was going to be a fight between me and L___, and went to her sisters, for the weekend. all because I refused to take L___ out for chinese food after I said I would, but he did something that he was not supposed to and had to pay the consequence and not be taken. Vulgar remarks and calling me slanderous names. which he was repeatedly told not to do the night before, that night he did it again, he must have called me at work 6 times asking if we were still going. now he says will I take him tomorrow, even though he is still calling me names, and cursing.

Myself I'm starting to break down, I'm ready to take him to the hospital and let them make the decisions, as to how to best treat him, away from the home. this is very upsetting to me as I've been the biggest advocate to get the best services for him and treatment. but I know all that will happen is word treatment.
what to do, what to do?

L.

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Hello again L.,

Re: what to do?

The first thing to do is to find a GOOD psychiatrist and have him/her do a Comprehensive Psychiatric Evaluation in order to come up with a proper diagnosis.

I'm very puzzled here. You say that over-indulgence has not taken place with your son, yet as you describe his behavior, he sounds exactly like an over-indulged child.

Either you are in a state of denial about this -- or I'm missing something.

Very confused,

Mark

My Out-of-Control Teen

Boarding school for my “out of control” teen...

Can you recommend a quality boarding school for my “out of control” teen daughter who will be 17 this October. She is has been diagnosed ADD/ADHD and ODD.

Part of the problem is she does not want to help herself.

Thank you for any help you can provide.

Bob

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La Lumiere School is probably the only one I can feel good about recommending.

The address is: 6801 North Wilhelm Road, La Porte, IN 46350

Phone: 219-326-7450

Their website: http://www.lalumiere.org/

Mark

My Out-of-Control Teen

Should I tell the probation officer?

Hi Mr. Hutten,

Just wanted to let you know how appreciative my husband and I are for your website. We are a committed christian family that is dealing with a 15 yr. old ADHD daughter with oppositionality. I am in the process of reading your ebook. You won't be surprised to hear that for the past 2 years she has been to a pychiatrist and counselors to deal with her challenges and anger - she can sometimes be explosive. These behaviors manifested as a toddler and she was a difficult baby. We have 3 others kids who don't struggle with these challenges although the pain, heartache and despair we at times experience as parents does not go unnoticed by the other three.

A few months back my daughter hit me after being put on concerta, which made her very irritable. It is no excuse, but I called the cops and they "arrested" her. I called her doctor and we took her off the meds. We went to court, she was put on probation and comm. service.

Inside this kid has christian convictions and stands up for what she believes. She lies alot but I do believe that shes not on drugs, drinking or having sex which she yells at us about and thinks she is a good kid because of it. OK, but its her behavior...and she just doesn't get it. Her disrespect is thru the roof, etc. Recently, I went on her IM log and found out she decieved me by saying she was sleeping at her friends house...I said I need to talk to the parent to confirm...so she has her friend's parent call me, which in reality was one of her guy friends posing as a father. She had been to a all-nite party …we later found out thru the log. My question is should I tell the probation officer?

She also told us she was going to bed early one nite, which was strange so I went up an hour later only to find she snuck out and stuffed her bed. Someone said "what kid hasn't done that.” Needless to say we punished her. Texting on the phone, Facebook and some social life has been taken away....My main goal for her is to learn and succeed, do need to tell her probation officer the whole thing? I worried about what will happen. She has been trying harder in other ways. she is seeing her counselor regularly. I don't want to "crush" her if you know what I mean. She doesn't hang out with bad kids. (You wouldn't believe all the friends she has for an ADHDer) all her friends come from good families. No one knows she is on probation or anything else (not even her grandparents who we are really close to because it would devastate them.)

I apologize for the length of this email. It is difficult because you cannot talk to other parents about these things, and I needed to tell you. Thanks again for your website, I am going thru it with a fine-toothed comb! It is a God-send.

Regards,

M.

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Hi M.,

Re: My question is should I tell the probation officer?

Absolutely! You want to (a) model the truth and (b) hold her accountable. Just report it – and tell your daughter that you will always have a commitment to the truth. This is a relatively minor problem – and I’m sure her PO will see it that way too.

Re: I don't want to "crush" her if you know what I mean.

I have to be honest with you here. This statement sounds like one that would come from an indulgent parent. Be careful “feeling sorry” for your child. This will work against both you and her. You don’t do your daughter any favors by trying to save her from uncomfortable emotions associated with her poor choices.

No half measures,

Mark

My Out-of-Control Teen

I have the feeling that the reason he wants to stay out is so that he can get stoned on pot ...

Hi Mark

My husband and I started watching the videos and read the ebook. My son left me a note saying that he would be home at 12:30 a.m. tonight Curfew is 12:00 I did the 4 step in the fighting fairly with him when I called his cell phone. He asked if he could stay the night and I went through the steps. Then he said well tomorrow I am going to stay at someone's house, I don't know who's yet. I said we would talk later about this. I have the feeling that the reason he wants to stay out is so that he can get stoned on pot and not have to come home and for me to rag him out about this. Last week he was at friends all week when we were on holidays, after he told our friends that he didn't want to stay at their home. My friend J__ said that her son M__ told C___ the first day the hey if you had a couple of beers not a problem with my mom just do not come home falling down drunk but do not come in the house stoned and she feels that is why he took off from her place and went and stayed and someone else's house. Some of these parents have no clue that the kids in this group of friends are smoking up in the backyard or at the neighbourhood playground at night and then they come in and go to the basement and crash.

What do I do now with this sleep over issue, when he says this week he is staying at someone's home. Alot of the friends are working full time and some of them have told me that they are distancing themselves from him because of what he is into and that he is becoming aggressive but there are others that would let him stay.

What is the plan?

Thanks for your help.

A.

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Hi A.,

You will want to use the strategy entitled "When You Want Something From Your Kid" [Session #3 - Week #3]. But I would discourage you from leaping ahead and working out of sequence.

Also, be sure to look at the section entitled "Read these Emails from Exasperated Parents" [Session #4]. Alcohol & drug abuse is addressed in that section.

Mark

My Out-of-Control Teen

Do you think a camp would help?

I just ordered your OPS e-book and have been going over it. Our 17 YO son is very rebellious and demanding. He is very materialistic but is not motivated to work for his "stuff". We have tried many techniques but haven't found any that work. We are indulgent parents and he fits your model. We will implement your techniques but feel more may be needed and we were thinking about a camp. We think the separation from us may be helpful and will open his eyes. Today is his birthday and we have yet to come up with a plan because of his behavior yesterday when he told my wife to shut up when she made him get off the computer and refused to give him more free time because he did not do his small chores. Do you think a camp would help?

He was diagnosed as ADHD by an Army doctor, but a later analysis by a psychologist revealed he only had a motivation problem. He gets in a lot of trouble at school to include smoking and hanging out with the wrong crowd. We have had to limit his music listening because it sounds very violent. I am rambling so will sign off but interested in your view. We will order the CDs to listen to while driving.

Sincerely,

C.,

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Hi C.,

Re: Do you think a camp would help?

I don’t think it would hurt. But sending a child to camp is just another traditional parenting strategy that will have very little bang for your buck.

Re: He was diagnosed as ADHD by an Army doctor, but a later analysis by a psychologist revealed he only had a motivation problem.

This is just 2 different names for the same problem (i.e., your son is only motivated to do that which he has an interest in).

I would encourage you to simply work the program for now – one week at a time – and nothing more. Then see how things are going in about 3 – 4 weeks.

I know you want a break FROM your son, but now you have the tools you need to set up a better parent-child relationship such that you won’t need a time-out away from him.

Mark

P.S. ==> BE SURE to watch ALL the Instructional Videos!!!

My Out-of-Control Teen

I don't feel I can take away her car or gas money as then she could not go to school or look for work....

I am a single parent of a 16 yr old girl. I had to quit my job or move last year. I quit my job and began working out of town often last year.

My daughter dropped out of high school (she was in AP) and just took the high school proficiency because she wants to go directly to college. Part of the agreement was that she would go out and get a job to pay for her gas and incidentals. She says she is looking for a job, but she hasn't put in any applications. We live out of town, and she has a college summer school class 4 nights a week. I don't feel I can take away her car or gas money as then she could not go to school or look for work. Any suggestions?

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She should “earn” gas money and money for incidentals by performing chores around the house if she can’t – or won’t – find employment at a place of business. “Earning” her gas money and freedom is the larger issue here.

Now she can have a choice, work at home – or work out of the home, but it should be one or the other. Otherwise, you are back to over-indulgence again.

Mark

Online Parent Support

RE: "He did not come home last night..."

Hi C.,

`````I’ve responded throughout your email below:

Hi Mark,

Thanks for all your help and insights. I have finished reading the ebook and finished through session three of the online course work. Our son, I___, turned 18 yesterday and will be a senior in August. I___ came home yesterday afternoon (after being gone since Friday afternoon) looking for money or birthday presents from family members (grandparents, aunts, etc).

`````Sounds like what an over-indulged kid would do.

I used the "poker face" strategy and listened to him during what amounted to a temper tantrum. After he yelled, cussed and threw things, he left the house. He called me three hours later and was extremely apologetic, telling me he loved me, missed me, etc. While he was home, I calmly told him that when he was out past curfew or did not come home at all, it caused a problem for me, because I couldn't sleep well and if he wanted to continue to live at home with the benefits we provide (use of a car, use of a phone, a roof over his head, food, clothing, paid college) he would need to come home each night by curfew. He reminded me that curfew no longer applied to him (since he's 18) and I responded that it was a condition of his living at home, not a law. 

==> Join Online Parent Support   

 

`````This was right on track – good job!

He asked for money and I gave him $5 tying the money to the chores he did Friday --cleaning his room, mowing the yard and doing laundry. I emphasized the importance of earning money to become self reliant. He came home around 6 p.m. to "see me" and said he would be home last night by 1 a.m. and would like to have a birthday dinner tonight. He did not come home last night.

I really want to do this right ("no half measures"), and would appreciate some guidance from you. A couple of questions.....1) if he comes home tonight, what is the appropriate discipline for not coming home last night?

`````Let’s stop right here! Please don’t get upset with me. I’m sure you want the truth though:

You will never win in this cat-and-mouse game. Why? Because he is no longer living in your home regularly – and he is managing financially, at some level, without you.

I think the game is over. Save you precious time and energy for other things. You may be beyond “discipline” with him.

The recommendation is not about what is an appropriate discipline – rather it is about helping him move out – permanently …helping him find a job and get his own place.

2) should I emphasize coming home at night and tackle the time he comes home after he starts coming home or should I link the two enforcing the need to be home at a certain time ie 11pm during the week?

`````I want to help you break through some possible denial on your part. He will come and go as he damn well pleases. Whenever he doesn’t like a particular rule – he’s gone again. This doesn’t mean he’s a bad kid – he just an adult now.

3) what should be next steps if he doesn't come home tonight? 4) We are going out of home for the 4th of July and would like him to come with us. Our older daughter (20) will be staying at home because she works. What strategies can we use to get him to come with us? I don't want him at home if he doesn't come with us because I'm concerned he will have parties. How do I keep him out if he wants in?

`````Change the locks. It’s not that expensive or time consuming to do.

Last month we told him he had to stay with a friend if he didn't come with us and he stayed at the friend's for a few hours, then went home and borrowed an extension ladder from a neighbor and went in through an upstairs window tripping the alarm. The police came and he showed them his driver's license and they let him in the house. 5) We live in Fishers. Is the Madison County parents program open to non-county residents?

`````Yes.

The strategies I was able to use yesterday were very effective. I___ changed his approach dramatically in just a few hours, although very short lived. I want to be sure I get the next steps right to ensure the most positive outcome possible. I really appreciate your help. After years of counseling, this approach has the potential to be much more effective long term.

`````I’ve been kind of tough on you here, but I want to give you the best possible recommendation.

Bottom line: He needs to find another place to live. Use the strategies when he comes to visit.

Shift from “what can I do to keep my son” …to “what can I do to help him be independent.”

I’m interested in your feedback on my recommendations,

Mark

==> Join Online Parent Support 

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Hi Mark,

You asked for feedback on your recommendations....my first reaction was sadness. Sadness for my son and the difficult life he has ahead of him and sadness that, although I put a lot of effort into parenting, my approach did not work, and I didn't get it figured out until too late in the game.

I agree with your recommendation that I have to move from "discipline" to helping him become independent. I will work with him to either follow the household rules or find another place to live. I'm at a point where I truly am comfortable with either solution. If he is going to be disruptive at home, I would prefer he leave. The irony is that he can sense that I am sincere about forcing him to find alternative living arrangements, and he has become more compliant in response.

Thanks for your insights. The course is extremely helpful because it is so specific, outlining exactly what needs to be said and what actions need to be taken. I wish I had discovered it years ago.

Kind regards,

C.

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Hi C.,

Thank you for having an open spirit to the change process.

Your statement "I'm at a point where I truly am comfortable with either solution" ...tells me that you are nearing the point of acceptance in the grief process AND "letting go" of some emotional baggage. This is a good thing.

You are working the program -- great job. There will be a reward at the end of the tunnel in some shape, form or fashion.

Mark