How do I avoid that circle fight?

Hi K.,

I responded to each of your questions in turn below.

Please look for the arrows: >>>>>>>>>>>>>

I have done a first 'read through' your ebook. It is very good and I can see that it is going to be very helpful. But I have a few first thoughts about ideas that weren't expanded enough for me.

For example, in you session #3 assignment section you used an example of a child cleaning his room, however this is not an accurate example for me of how these conversations go.

In our home: The parent notices the room is still a mess, says your example.... then the child responds "what's the matter with my room, it looks clean enough to me?".... where does the parent go from here. Because although I have shown my son the standard repeatedly, chores ALWAYS end up in a fight for this very reason - he refuses to do the job properly then gets angry and demands to know what the matter with the job he's done. Initially I've tried to say things like... "what you've done so far is great... but...and then point out the areas that need improving or finishing... but then that leads to "I did it fine!" …and on and on it goes, until I'm hollering "just do it!"

So, how do I avoid that circle fight?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> There’s nothing to expand upon here really. Here’s the formula (albeit simple): Let your son decide when he will complete his required chore. When he thinks he’s done cleaning up his room, do a quick inspection. If the chore is not done properly, say, “Your chore is not completed. Take as much time as you need, but you may not leave until your room is done the way it’s suppose to be done.”

If he says, “What's the matter with my room, it looks clean enough to me,” then you put on your ‘poker face’ and sound like a broken record by re-stating “you may not leave until your room is done the way it’s suppose to be done.” ---Please refer to the section on “Anger Management” in the online version of the ebook.

The larger issue here seems to be that you are in a power struggle with your son over the ‘room cleaning’ business. Power struggles create frustration, anger and resentment on the part of the parent and the kid. Resentment causes a further breakdown of communication until it seems as if all you do is argue. An argument can only happen if there is more than one person. With just one person, it is simply a temper tantrum.

Don’t continually remind him of how the chore is to be completed -- he knows the drill. He can either choose to meet the expectations, or he can choose the consequence.

You cannot make him clean his room. He already knows how it’s supposed to be done, and it gets old trying to make him do it ‘right.’ But you can issue a consequence for not meeting your expectations (e.g., he can’t leave until it’s done right, no TV tonight, no phone privileges, etc.).

Also you talked about lying, which is a very serious problem with our son. You listed a bunch of reasons why a child lies, one that you didn't list seems to be one that we deal with a lot...our child lies so that he can break the rules. He lies about what movies he's going to see, whether parents will be home, who will be present, what they'll be doing, etc... Because we check up on him, he gets caught and privileges are revoked, but it doesn't stop him from using the same lies over and over again.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I mentioned that one of the reasons kids lie is to “control the situation” …I see this as the same thing as lying to “break the rules.”

Again, you cannot stop him from lying, but you can issue a consequence for lying. Then it’s up to him whether or not to lie again. If you issue the consequence in a way that doesn’t accidentally reward him for lying, it shouldn’t be an ongoing issue. If you are providing a lot of intensity when he lies, he will continue to seek that intensity by lying again, and again. ---Please refer to the section on ‘intensity’ here: http://www.myoutofcontrolteen.com/energetic

And lastly. Our son's biological mom has Bi-Polar Disorder and a Conduct Disorder, the two of them have paired up to break our rules. She learns the rule, she breaks the rule when they're together and he goes along with it. Our son is 16, so we have no legal ability to intervene in their relationship. Do you have any strategies that might be helpful in dealing with that type of situation, because even if we can effectively discipline him, we still have to deal with her, and we can't discipline her?

>>>>>>>>>>>>> I’m starting to sound like a broken record here: You’re right -- you have no control over his bio-mom. But guess what? You have no control over your son either!! But you CAN control the things your son enjoys (e.g., phone, television, toys, games, freedom for activities, junk food, toiletries, favorite cloths, bedroom doors, furniture, etc).

He will NEVER work for what YOU want, but he WILL work for what HE wants. By controlling the things he wants, you will eventually motivate him to change unwanted behaviors. Focus on controlling his stuff and freedom rather than focusing in trying to control him. ---Please refer to the section on self-reliance here: http://www.myoutofcontrolteen.com/rely

I just have to say thank you so much for making yourself available for help. You have no idea what a blessing it is to be able to talk to someone who can help, and who knows what we're going through.

God Bless You!

K.M.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you. I hope that this clarifies a few things. Please stay in touch.

Mark

www.MyOutOfControlTeen.com

I have one disagreement with my husband...

"Dear Mark, I also have one disagreement with my husband. My son doesn't do any chores around the house and my husband also waits on him hand and foot (e.g., bringing him bowls of cereal while he is watching TV). My son is 14 years and could quite easily get his own cereal. I refuse to do this except when he is running late in the morning. He thinks that I am being mean in not waiting on him, but I think that he is old enough to do this himself. What are your views on this? Regards, G."

___________

Hi G.,

As you may know from reading my e-book, “self-reliance” is key. We want our kids to develop self-reliance. How? By setting up a system where they have to earn their material items and activities (stuff and freedom).

We help our children purchase material things with their own money (e.g., from an allowance, money earned by doing chores, money earned from their place of employment, etc.). And, we help our children earn freedom (e.g., by following rules, doing chores, accepting appropriate discipline for misbehavior, meeting reasonable parental expectations).

Self-reliance boosts emotional development, and reduces their resentment and sense of entitlement. As parents, we want to try to duplicate (for the child) how the real world operates, because one day soon, they will be out in the real world and will need to be prepared for it.

In the real world -- as an adult – one has daily chores or tasks that must be performed. In the real world, one has to wait on himself (unless he is at a restaurant, but even then he pays for service in the form of a tip).

When we make things too comfortable for our teens, they come to expect this kind of treatment from others when they leave the nest and enter the world. Unfortunately, they often find themselves in a form of culture shock when they realize that other people do not treat them the same way good old mom and dad did. Now they have to play “catch up” (i.e., develop social skills they never developed as a teen because they were overly dependent on the parent).

Whenever you are undecided about what to do with your child, always ask yourself the following questions: “Will the action that I’m about take with my child inhibit the development of self-reliance, or will it promote the development of self-reliance.” If it promotes development, then it’s a good decision. If not, it’s a disservice to the child that will cause problems for him in the future.

Good question,

Mark Hutten, M.A.

Click here for more help ==>  www.MyOutOfControlTeen.com

Do we let him go and get thrown to the wolves?

Mark,

Thank you so much for the opportunity to have access to the Online Parent Support book. As I am sure you already have realised, my husband and I are no different than any of the other parents I have been reading about. We have "tried everything" with our 14 year old ODD out of control son and it seems to be getting worse as each day goes by. I am the step-mother (wicked, in his eyes) and my husband and I have custody of him and his younger sister. They go to stay with their mother and step-father every other weekend. Their mother walked out on them when my step-son was 5 and my step-daughter was barely 2, so my husband raised them alone until he and I married 2 years later.

My husband and I sat down last night and were able to go through the ODD e-book together and are very excited about implementing it. Because as you say, we have been doing the same thing expecting different results mainly because we had no idea what else to do. So we are very committed to trying this program.

I have a couple of questions that we need some direction and advice on. First, my son will not get out of bed in the morning to get ready for school in the amount of time we have allowed. He gets called at 6:30 and is to be up and headed to the bathroom by 6:35. Invariably, he will push it until I have to keep calling and calling to get his butt out of bed. I have to leave to go to work at 6:50 and there have been times that I have left not knowing whether or not he missed the bus and school until I arrive home around 1:00 pm. Do I just let him fall on his face and miss school?

Also, I feel like he wins the battle because he ends up getting to do what he wants. He is in a situation on the bus that is he gets in trouble one more time he will be kicked off for the rest of the school year. So instead of addressing the situation, my husband picks him up after school. I don't agree with this. But what do we do if he gets kicked off the bus? We both have to work and our jobs require us to be there before school starts.

One more thing for now. His father is in the National Guard and may be getting deployed to Iraq in the next 6 months. My son thinks he will be going to live with his mother. She has no rules, no chores, and no discipline. Whereas, he knows that I am very strict (too strict sometimes) and with her he will get by with murder. Do we let him go and get thrown to the wolves? I don't feel she would be receptive to trying to join us in these new parenting techniques. She feels very guilty about walking out on them in the first place and is trying to make up for it by letting him do whatever he wants.

I apologize for the length of my letter, but felt you should know some of the details. Your input and advice will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,

J.

-------------

Hi J.,

Re: problems getting him out of bed

1^st - Try to maintain his sleep routine by not allowing him to stay UP too late -- and sleep IN too late the following morning -- on the weekends. An extra hour or two is fine, but any more than that will throw his sleep cycle out-of-whack for the rest of the week. Also, make sure that he's not staying up extra late in his room after you think he's gone to bed.

2^nd - If he as a computer or TV in his bedroom, take them out of there! Make his room as boring as possible.

3^rd - Establish a consequence for NOT getting ready on time (e.g., must go to bed an hour earlier; cannot have any friends over on the weekend, etc.). And establish incentives for getting up on time (e.g., can have pizza Friday evening, can go to a Saturday afternoon movie with a friend). You get the idea – be creative!

4^th - Tell him it is time to get up, then make a very Very VEry VERy VERY load noise that startles him. Slam his door, smack the door with the palm of your hand, drop something heavy on the floor, yell “YEEEEHHAAAAAWWWWWW” – you get the idea. This will get his blood pressure up which will make it very difficult to settle back into alpha (warning: expect him to pretend that you did not startled him and that this strategy has no effect). I know this may seem like a ridiculous strategy, but it works. After several mornings of this, he will tend to not dawdle as much.

5^th - Use the strategy in the ebook: “When You Want Something From Your Kid” (in the Anger Management section of the online version of the ebook).

Re: may get kicked of the bus

Again, please refer to the strategy in the ebook: “When You Want Something From Your Kid” (in the Anger Management section of the online version of the ebook).

Re: Do we let him go and get thrown to the wolves?

If his mother is not going to be united and bonded with you and your husband regarding using identical parenting strategies, then why don’t you simply give yourself a break and let him go live his mother and step-father. Then when they complain about his behavior and ask you to take him back, they may be more likely to work with you. This is risky – I know.

I'm going to honk my horn for just a few seconds -- I’m a risk-taker. This is one of the reasons I’m successful with my clients. I'm very creative, and in some cases, I do the last thing I would ever think of doing first. I hope this way of thinking is rubbing off on you now.

Mark

http://www.myoutofcontrolteen.com/sl

Words of wisdom?

My daughter has been diagnosed with OCD/OCPD and potentially bipolar disorder, but that last diagnosis is not confirmed yet...right now she is unable to go to school - anxiety and panic attack when the morning comes. We are extremely hesitant to go the home-school route, because of the probability of the anxiety transferring to another area --especially if she has not developed the skills to tackle it when she experiences the anxiety/panic.

I saw on your website the concept of getting her to have going back to school become her idea...any magical ways of getting that to happen??? Her father and I are at the end of our creative strategies rope (her father is a clinical psychologist and also has OCD)...words of wisdom?

Hopefully,

M.P.

____________________

Hi M.,

You've raised a lot of issues here. Each one should be addressed in detail. But given the constraints of time, I'll briefly touch on each one.

Let's first identify the individual issues:

1. OCD
2. Possibly bipolar
3. anxiety
4. panic
5. unable [unwilling] to go to school

Re: OCD

Is she on an antidepressant? If so, does it help? Another complicating factor is that when anti-depressants are given without mood stabilizers to people with bipolar disorder, the antidepressants may induce mania or hypomania. So her psychiatrist will need about a year of experimentation (the art side of pharmacotherapy) in order to get the right combinations and dosages of medication. It will be important that everyone in the family be patient with this process.

Re: bipolar

Bipolar disorder is difficult to recognize in young people because it does not fit precisely the symptom criteria established for adults, and symptoms can resemble or co-occur with those of other common childhood-onset mental disorders and may be mistaken for normal emotions and behaviors of children and adolescents.

As a result, Bipolar kids are often given any number of psychiatric labels (e.g., ADHD, Oppositional Defiant Disorder, Conduct Disorder, Obsessive Compulsive Disorder, Separation Anxiety Disorder, etc.).

Too often they are treated with stimulants or antidepressants -- medications which can actually worsen the bipolar condition.

Having said that, it has been my experience that when bipolar is suspected, it is eventually diagnosed (i.e., if her doctor believes she may be bipolar, she probably is). Is anyone else in the family bipolar (e.g., uncle, grandparent)? As you probably know, bipolar is highly genetic.

So my advice, based on my best guess (and it is only a guess at this point), would be to begin focusing on the bipolar issue because (a) she probably is bipolar and (b) once the bipolar symptoms are stabilized, the other symptoms (anxiety, panic, oc behavior, etc.) will get addressed by default (at least from a medical standpoint).

(Please read the section of the ebook on Dealing With a Bipolar Teen.)

Re: school

Going on the assumption that she is bipolar (and again, it is just an assumption): Bipolar children will not function well in a regular school setting - so that's out, period!

However, the bipolar kids I work with do very well in alternative school environments or GED programs where the classes are small and they get sufficient amounts of one-on-one attention.

They do miss a lot of class time (e.g., "I got a headache," "I'm sick to my stomach," bla bla bla), but most alternative schools are willing to deal with poor attendance within reasonable limits.

In any event, your task will be to have a relaxed attitude about all things -- model "having a relaxed attitude" throughout the day, everyday!!! Your daughter will pick up on it at an unconscious level. Then you'll be working your magic.

I CANNOT EMPHASIZE THIS ENOUGH...

The more you and your husband develop the "art of letting go," the less she will stress. The less she stresses, the fewer symptoms she will experience. The fewer symptoms she experiences, the more she can focus on the really important things in life (relationships, school, work, play, etc.).

It sounds like the whole family may be in "survival mode" (i.e., spending a lot of time and energy just trying to keep the boat from sinking). One can escape from this mode by practicing "having a relaxed attitude," a "grateful heart" and a "sense of humor." If you think you simply can't do this right now, then fake it anyway (i.e., "act as if" you are relaxed, grateful, and finding things to laugh about). With practice, this becomes habit.

In summary, the real issue here as I see it is "stress." Everybody is feeling pressure. And I can promise you that if everyone is uptight most of the waking hours -- you will have a long, hard road ahead.

I really have a lot more to say, but am out of time.

Please stay in touch,

Mark

www.MyOutOfControlTeen.com

When the Father Lets the Kids Get Away with Bad Behavior

Question: I have a 14 year old son, and we always seem to be angry with each other. I try to be patient, but whatever I do seems to annoy him and vice versa. My husband takes a different approach than me, and this also causes conflict between us as he lets our son get away with bad behaviour by ignoring it. If our son is rude to me, he doesn't say anything, he just says that I should deal with it. What can I do?

Click here for my response...

Our granddaughter is in more trouble...

"This morning I've discovered that our situation with our granddaughter is more troubled than my original thought of disrespect and disobedience….Lying has increased to almost a way of daily life for her. I discovered a flask containing alcohol under her mattress and a notebook with entries outlining making out with boys, sneaking out, smoking and the fact that she hates my husband and myself. She is nearly 14 and has lived with us for the past 8 years. Her parents divorced before she was a year with her Dad as custodian care taker. Once he remarried there was real trouble with step mother and step sisters. At age 5, she lived with her Mom & step-dad til she came to us at age 6…her mother is not in a position morally or financially to have her with her so we made the commitment to raise her. She has strong feelings of rejection from both parents which is only natural. She struggles with keeping more than one friend at a time. My question is that upon discovering this evidence which confirms our suspicions, should we confront her with our findings? Should her absentee parents be contacted before we confront her? Should we be contacting some outside intervention for her as well? Any advice you might offer would be appreciated. Our concern was not to 'corner' her into doing something drastic but to let her know that we know the truth and offer to help with solutions. Thank you, S.S."

___________________________

Hi S.,

Let's take each of your questions in turn:

...upon discovering this evidence which confirms our suspicions, should we confront her with our findings?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Yes ...the strategy you may want to use to go about this is in the Online Version of the eBook: http://www.myoutofcontrolteen.com/q-a

Should her absentee parents be contacted before we confront her?

>>>>>>>>>> Not necessarily, but it might be the polite thing to do to keep them in the loop. Maybe wait until after you confront your granddaughter to update them. Also, I think it would be better NOT to invite the absentee parents to the confrontation.

Should we be contacting some outside intervention for her as well?

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Not yet.

1. Re: possession of alcohol: use the strategy in the link above

2. Re: lying: this is covered here: http://www.myoutofcontrolteen.com/lying

3. Re: sneaking out: refer to the section "What to do when you want something from your kid" in this chapter: http://www.myoutofcontrolteen.com/am

4. Re: smoking: this is covered here: http://www.myoutofcontrolteen.com/q-a

under this headline --"I'm pretty sure my daughter is smoking cigarettes. I hate the thought that she is doing this to herself, especially at such a young age. Any ideas?"

5. Re: hates my husband & myself: She doesn't hate you, rather she loves you but is angry with you -- and this anger (which is really about her parents) gets misdirected toward you. Thus be patient with her and let her have her anger -- she will not be talked out of it. (Notice I said "be patient" rather than "you should feel sorry for her and over-indulge her to compensate for the bad cards she has been dealt").

Keep me posted.

Here's to a better home environment,

Mark

==> MyOutOfControlTeen.com

It's been hard to take this back seat...

Hello Mark,

I know I have not been very diligent in corresponding. I will tell you ever since I made the statement to my son, "As a parent, I know I've made some mistakes in my parenting decisions. And I realize, as a parent, I have an obligation to you to make some changes." With that, I included: "...although I don't know what those changes are, completely, I can tell you that as they come up I will discuss them openly with you and we can come to agreements together, something we both can live with."

I've completely stepped back from 'hounding' him about grades and his bedroom...both of which he has taken responsibility, for that I am so grateful! I said to him that I can't do it for him when it comes to school and that he is solely responsible for whether he wants to successfully graduate high school and move on to college.

That said, it's been hard to take this back seat, but it's paying off and he's becoming more responsible. We attended a College Fair last month and it was his idea! I'm glad to say he's at least starting to think about college seriously.

Thanks again and I'm sure I'll be in touch.

R.V. (parent of a 16 year old young man)

www.MyOutOfControlTeen.com