{Email from brand new member of Online Parent Support:}
Mark,
Honestly my situation is in a hopeless state right now. I have 2 girls, E___, age 15, 10th grade and L___, age 15, 9th grade. I have full custody of E___ and she has lived with me for about 14 years. L___ is my stepdaughter from a 2-1/2 year marriage to my wife S___. E___ sees her real mom, D___, each week on Thurs and every other weekend. The relationship is currently good between D___ and S___ and myself. We try to work together for E___ as best we can.
I've always had issues with controlling E___'s attitude, anger and hostility towards me. I think I've tried every form of punishment known to man to no avail. One example of an episode occurred last night. I asked E___ to be off the computer by a certain time and gave her 10 min to do it. That time elapsed and she was still on. I went and asked again for her to get off and she huffed and said sternly, "OK, OK." I stood there waiting and noticed this was making her more agitated. I walked away for a minute or two and returned to see her still on Facebook. I then asked, "Why are you still on? I gave you plenty of notice..." She blurts out, "Aaaaggh, I'm getting OFF! Leave me alone." Keep in mind this was at the request of my wife, who wanted to get to bed earlier that night and the bed she sleeps on is in the same room as the computer. She had passed by and was aware of the conflict going on but did not join in.
E___ finally gets off, 15 min past the time I had asked her to. She storms off to her room. I asked her for her schedule book while she was on the way, as I needed it for some summer dates. She goes to her room upstairs and then flings it down the stairs. L___ is in the room and witnessed this. I had enough of this behavior and went up the stairs to talk with E___.
S___ is of the opinion that as long as I allow her to talk to me and act the way she does, it will continue. She thinks I need to be more strict. As I've mentioned before, talking, reasoning, punishment do not work, but yet I keep trying if only for S___'s approval. E___'s outbursts happen about every two weeks. She is rather moody most of the time.
I go in E___'s room and am immediately unwanted there. "GET OUT!!” she yells. I just wanted to calm her down and talk. She kept yelling and running around the room. " I DON"T WANT YOU IN HERE!!” I said, "Lower your voice, calm down and sit for a minute." "NO, GET OUT" The yelling and tantrum started. I said, "All right, the computer is off limits to you for two days." She yells, "GET OUT!" I say, "OK two weeks." This made things worse and I left.
E___ had just gotten off being grounded for about two months for a combination of poor grades, lying, breaking grounding rules, and talking back.
I go back downstairs and S___ and L___ are distraught, huddled up on our bed. I apologize for what had happened. L___ went to bed and S___ and I talked for a bit before she went to sleep. She doesn't have any hope of it getting any better. Her relationship with E___ is distant and this is not healthy. L___'s is the same. I don't think they are willing to go any further as far as trying to build that relationship.
We have been seeing a counselor as a group and individually for the past few months. He has been a great help, however S___ is becoming less willing to attend. He has requested only the two of us for upcoming sessions because he wants to try and start again building our commitment.
There are many other factors involved in this situation, but this is what I'm burdened with at the moment.
Thanks for any help you can give.
E.D.
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Hi E.,
I think what I would like to do at this point (since you are just now starting to use the strategies outlined in the eBook) is to give you some time to digest the material. Most, if not all, of the problems you're currently experiencing will be covered in the eBook.
Be sure to listen to ALL the audio files as well. If you don't have time to sit at your computer to do this, you can get audio CDs and listen in your car ==> Audio CDs.
In a few weeks, please email me with some very specific questions, and we will tweak these strategies according to your specific parent-child problems.
Stay in touch,
Mark
www.MyOutOfControlTeen.com
She is dealing with extreme aggression...
Hello Mark,
I want to thank you for your program. It has been very helpful. I work as Parent-Child Advocate in a Crisis Center here in _____, Texas and I am a new mother of a 10-month-old little girl.
Your book covers a multitude of topics and I trust that by putting the concepts into practice we will see significant improvements. Do you have any special suggestions for single moms who have been victims of domestic violence with 7 or more children who are also victims of domestic violence and are all very angry and out of control?
It is difficult for the moms to give each child individual attention, and they many times resort to "blanketed punishments" that also punish the children who are not acting out at the time... the child who acts up the most ends up getting the attention, and even if the mom tries to actively ignore the child(ren) who are acting out and continue paying attention to those who are not, the child's behavior escalates to the point of disrupting and hurting all of the other children and "punishing" those who are not acting out, and then those children also begin acting out, and so on.
Many times the child(ren)'s relationship with mom is very damaged because she has not been able to meet their needs because of her own problems... they do not trust her; they do not respect her... She wants to change and is seeking help but does not know where to start because she is dealing extreme aggression and she has so many to deal with.
Thanks again for everything. Your program is excellent!
J.S.
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Hi J.,
You have multiple issues here …I wish I had time to address them all:
1. Mother is a victim of domestic violence
2. Children who are victims of domestic violence
3. Childhood anger management issues
4. Single mothers parenting a large family
5. Lack of parenting skills
6. Parent-child trust/bonding issues
7. Mother’s personal problems
Re: Do you have any special suggestions for single moms who have been victims of domestic violence with 7 or more children who are also victims of domestic violence and are all very angry and out of control?
Survivors of domestic violence recount stories of put-downs, public humiliation, name-calling, mind games and manipulations by the abuser. Psychological scars left by emotional and verbal abuse are often more difficult to recover from than physical injuries. They often have lasting effects even after the relationship has ended. The survivor’s self-esteem is trampled in the course of being told repeatedly that she is worthless, stupid, untrustworthy, ugly or despised.
The American Psychiatric Association has identified a specific type of mental distress common to survivors of trauma called posttraumatic stress disorder or PTSD. Common reactions to trauma include:
· Fear and anxiety — While normal responses to dangerous situations, fear and anxiety can become a permanent emotional state without professional help. Memories of the trauma can trigger intense anxiety and immobilize the survivor. Children may express their fears by becoming hyperactive, aggressive, develop phobias or revert to infantile behavior.
· Nightmares and flashbacks — Because the trauma is so shocking and different from normal everyday experiences, the mind cannot rid itself of unwanted and intrusive thoughts and images. Nightmares are especially common in children.
· Being in “danger mode” — Jitteriness, being easily startled or distracted, concentration problems, impatience and irritability are all common to being in a “heightened state of alert” and are part of one’s survival instinct. Children’s reactions tend to be expressed physically because they are less able to verbalize their feelings.
· Guilt, shame and blame — Survivors often blame themselves for allowing the abuse to occur and continue for as long as it did. Survivors feel guilty for allowing their children to be victimized. Sometimes others blame the survivors for allowing themselves to be victims. These emotions increase the survivor’s negative self-image and distrustful view of the world.
· Grief and depression — Feelings of loss, sadness and hopelessness are signs of depression. Crying spells, social withdrawal and suicidal thoughts are common when grieving over the loss and disappointment of a disastrous relationship.
To recover from domestic violence, the mother must stop blaming herself for what has happened, reconnect with people in order to build a support network, learn how to understand and express herself (with your help Jennifer), join a survivors’ support group (if you have one), and develop anger management skills so she does not repeat the cycle of abuse toward her children.
Mark
www.MyOutOfControlTeen.com
How about a Big Sister?
My daughter has been on home detention/ISP for one month now and is going to continue for another/she was doing fairly well and cooperating, but now i think reality is setting in that she needs to drop old friends and will not be allowed back to school unless she passes the online charter school classes to the 9th grade-she has flunked 8th because of truancy and running away and got into a fight using a folding knife to pack her fist, it scratched the girl on the head.
We live 16 miles out of town so she is very secluded and coming around back to her old self (i have been using your book also, and it really works!) However i think we're moving into a depression issue over non-socialization out here …and her and i being together all the time, working on homework, chores, playing some games, exercising outdoors.
What could i look into out there, we do not belong to any church anymore as all the goody goodys and bullys seem to be there and the adults were only interested in building the new church and raising money all the time. That was when she was about 5 or 6. Thank you for your time.
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In similar situations with my adolescent clients, I hook them up with a Big Brother or Big Sister. So, you may want to consider going to your nearest BB/BS Organization and see about procuring a mentor for your daughter
Research confirms what previously we had known only anecdotally or intuitively. That is, that mentoring works. A recent Research Brief found that youth who participate in mentoring relationships experience a number of positive benefits.
In terms of educational achievement, mentored youth have better attendance; a better chance of going on to higher education; and better attitudes towards school.
In terms of health and safety, mentoring appears to help prevent substance abuse and reduce some negative youth behaviors.
On the social and emotional development front, taking part in mentoring promotes positive social attitudes and relationships.
Mentored youth tend to trust their parents more and communicate better with them.
They also feel they get more emotional support from their friends than do youth who are not mentored.
Here are a few stats. Youth involved in the Big Brothers Big Sisters programs are:
· 46% less likely to use illegal drugs
· 27% less likely to begin using alcohol
· 52% less likely to skip school
· more confident of their performance in school
· one-third less likely to hit someone, and
· more trusting of their parents/guardians
Mark
www.MyOutOfControlTeen.com
Daughter Problems
Grades started declining at the end of her 9th grade year. They got worse during her sophomore year. These 2 years she was always at practice a ballgame or home. We had no problems with her not doing what she should be doing.
We did constantly stay on her about her grades. She said she should not be in advances classes and that she felt stupid. She said it was just hard for her to understand. She told me not to put her into advanced classes since the 8th grade, however she was a straight ‘A’ student in middle school. She was a competitive gymnast and in the gym 20 hours a week and a straight A student.
She has always been difficult at home. She has always had meltdowns and I could tell you when she was going to have one and when just under the circumstances. They never happened at school. She has always just had one friend at a time. She is not a drama queen. She takes things very literally and if she is threatened, you had better follow through with the threat or it is all she wrote.
The angrier she got, she started skipping school. This was not until 11th grade. Around October she had a new friend that was trouble and I just stayed in contact with her mother and that soon ended. Her anger got worse and I threatened to call the police and she called them on herself. She had torn up the house, bitten her Dad, and pushed me numerous times. She was put in jail overnight and released to us on house arrest until her sentencing. Her chargers were perched and put into family court under a status offence. Her court conditions, were no violence, attend school, stay in counseling. While on house arrest she was not allowed to cheer. She quit.
In the mean time I had her evaluated by an outside source (this was in October or November) that said she had scotopic sensitivity and a learning disability. She was under evaluations at the high school for special education. After the night in jail she went to school for a week then has refused since. However the county school administration has been working with me on evaluations and Plato (computer school) and just whatever we think might work. They have not given her special education because they cannot get behavior evaluations because she will not attend school. I got her home bound.
In the mean time the school system (the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing) turned her in for truancy. We, the administration and myself had taken her out of the regular classroom. Her social worker was kept abreast of all that was happening. We had made some progress on behavior. We go to court and the judge is mad because we are already in the system and give us back to the other Judge. Fayette County schools wanted to dismiss the truancy charges but could not do after it was already on the docket. So now we have to go to court early for our other problem with the truancy issue and we are home bound. I think Fayette County will write a letter to the judge.
But we are still having problems with her as for as behavior. I think she is just getting lower and lower self-esteem and stating to medicate herself. She did test positive for low amounts of pot and then tested clean. I think she will test positive for pot again this Wednesday if they test her.
She had separation anxiety when she was little until she was around 7 years old. All of her teachers gave her rave reviews, and said she was extremely shy. Even her high school teachers the most recent said she was very good in class. She just did not do her work or hand it in and was absent quit a bit. She was always anxiety ridden over homework or projects. She always needed a lot of guidance. I talked to her sixth grade teacher the other day because I subbed for her and I asked her if M___ was as shy as this little girl in her class that I used to teach gymnastics to and she said oh on M___ was much shyer. I said how can you be shyer that, and she said that if M--- was called on and did not know the answer she even got shyer. She had to be perfect.
She never missed a cheerleading practice even if she was ineligible due to grades. Grades are what we fought about and what started most of the arguments.
She talks real loud and you just want to cringe when she opens her mouth. This is just with family and those that are close.
She is beautiful and athletic. Every therapist, police officer, or anyone she meets says she just does not fit the mold that we are used to seeing.
She was diagnosed with ADHD and ODD by a Psychiatrist that the school sent her to. I was going to stay with them but they did not take our insurance. I tried to get the school to take care of a short treatment time with him but they would not. They just paid for the initial diagnosis.
She is the 2nd child of 4. I have 4 kids aged 13 thru 18. Yes they are close in age. M___ (girl) 8-8-88, M___ (girl) 4-22-90. T___ (boy) 8-26-92, T___ (girl) 5-6-94.
They are all very athletic. They have all done well in school. T___ is a baseball player with a probable future in Baseball we have been told. We did the right things growing up as far as time spent, reading, fun etc.....
We were not perfect, but we are a family that cares.
Help!!!!!!
T.G.
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Hi T.,
I know you’re in a state of desperation right now …and I’m sure you could use a “magic bullet.” But let me tell you that “change” is going to take some time.
When any of my adolescent clients experience school difficulties similar to your daughter, we pull them out of regular school and plug them into alternative school, or they simply work on their GED.
I wish I had gotten to you earlier. I can see that poor academic performance was a major source of parent-child conflict. And as you read in my eBook, I have a specific recommendation in this case – a recommendation that would have spared you and her a lot of agony (plus her grades probably would have come up a bit).
In any event, just continue to learn and implement the strategies in the eBook -- and for God’s sake, plug her into some form of education other than regular school.
Mark
www.MyOutOfControlTeen.com
We did constantly stay on her about her grades. She said she should not be in advances classes and that she felt stupid. She said it was just hard for her to understand. She told me not to put her into advanced classes since the 8th grade, however she was a straight ‘A’ student in middle school. She was a competitive gymnast and in the gym 20 hours a week and a straight A student.
She has always been difficult at home. She has always had meltdowns and I could tell you when she was going to have one and when just under the circumstances. They never happened at school. She has always just had one friend at a time. She is not a drama queen. She takes things very literally and if she is threatened, you had better follow through with the threat or it is all she wrote.
The angrier she got, she started skipping school. This was not until 11th grade. Around October she had a new friend that was trouble and I just stayed in contact with her mother and that soon ended. Her anger got worse and I threatened to call the police and she called them on herself. She had torn up the house, bitten her Dad, and pushed me numerous times. She was put in jail overnight and released to us on house arrest until her sentencing. Her chargers were perched and put into family court under a status offence. Her court conditions, were no violence, attend school, stay in counseling. While on house arrest she was not allowed to cheer. She quit.
In the mean time I had her evaluated by an outside source (this was in October or November) that said she had scotopic sensitivity and a learning disability. She was under evaluations at the high school for special education. After the night in jail she went to school for a week then has refused since. However the county school administration has been working with me on evaluations and Plato (computer school) and just whatever we think might work. They have not given her special education because they cannot get behavior evaluations because she will not attend school. I got her home bound.
In the mean time the school system (the right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing) turned her in for truancy. We, the administration and myself had taken her out of the regular classroom. Her social worker was kept abreast of all that was happening. We had made some progress on behavior. We go to court and the judge is mad because we are already in the system and give us back to the other Judge. Fayette County schools wanted to dismiss the truancy charges but could not do after it was already on the docket. So now we have to go to court early for our other problem with the truancy issue and we are home bound. I think Fayette County will write a letter to the judge.
But we are still having problems with her as for as behavior. I think she is just getting lower and lower self-esteem and stating to medicate herself. She did test positive for low amounts of pot and then tested clean. I think she will test positive for pot again this Wednesday if they test her.
She had separation anxiety when she was little until she was around 7 years old. All of her teachers gave her rave reviews, and said she was extremely shy. Even her high school teachers the most recent said she was very good in class. She just did not do her work or hand it in and was absent quit a bit. She was always anxiety ridden over homework or projects. She always needed a lot of guidance. I talked to her sixth grade teacher the other day because I subbed for her and I asked her if M___ was as shy as this little girl in her class that I used to teach gymnastics to and she said oh on M___ was much shyer. I said how can you be shyer that, and she said that if M--- was called on and did not know the answer she even got shyer. She had to be perfect.
She never missed a cheerleading practice even if she was ineligible due to grades. Grades are what we fought about and what started most of the arguments.
She talks real loud and you just want to cringe when she opens her mouth. This is just with family and those that are close.
She is beautiful and athletic. Every therapist, police officer, or anyone she meets says she just does not fit the mold that we are used to seeing.
She was diagnosed with ADHD and ODD by a Psychiatrist that the school sent her to. I was going to stay with them but they did not take our insurance. I tried to get the school to take care of a short treatment time with him but they would not. They just paid for the initial diagnosis.
She is the 2nd child of 4. I have 4 kids aged 13 thru 18. Yes they are close in age. M___ (girl) 8-8-88, M___ (girl) 4-22-90. T___ (boy) 8-26-92, T___ (girl) 5-6-94.
They are all very athletic. They have all done well in school. T___ is a baseball player with a probable future in Baseball we have been told. We did the right things growing up as far as time spent, reading, fun etc.....
We were not perfect, but we are a family that cares.
Help!!!!!!
T.G.
````````````````````````````
Hi T.,
I know you’re in a state of desperation right now …and I’m sure you could use a “magic bullet.” But let me tell you that “change” is going to take some time.
When any of my adolescent clients experience school difficulties similar to your daughter, we pull them out of regular school and plug them into alternative school, or they simply work on their GED.
I wish I had gotten to you earlier. I can see that poor academic performance was a major source of parent-child conflict. And as you read in my eBook, I have a specific recommendation in this case – a recommendation that would have spared you and her a lot of agony (plus her grades probably would have come up a bit).
In any event, just continue to learn and implement the strategies in the eBook -- and for God’s sake, plug her into some form of education other than regular school.
Mark
www.MyOutOfControlTeen.com
I just want to know if there is hope...
>>>>>>>>>> Hi J. …I’ve responded where you see these arrows.
My son recently got suspended from school and is going back on Tuesday after 9 days. They are not going to put him in the general population because "in anger" he said to a friend "I could find her house and rape her if I wanted to." He is 13 and really had no idea what that meant but heard it on America's Most Wanted so he figured saying that would get her to stay away from him. This of course happened right after the VT shooting so that didn't help matters.
Luckily, I had just changed him from an LD IEP to and ED IEP to address his ODD and severe depressive disorder and social communication disorder that was diagnosed by his psychiatrist. They opted to not expel him but we got him into intensive individual counseling right away so we can maybe head off any other incidents.
>>>>>>>>>> Counseling is a traditional parenting strategy, which will have little or no benefit.
This is the first time he did something like this in school, so my husband and I have been wondering if this is a reaction to hearing the IEP accommodations listed out for him and then unconsciously testing his boundaries? We are also concerned that his obsession with girls (which is natural for most 13 y.o. but extreme in him) is going to get him in further trouble because he just does not understand social quos or personal and verbal boundaries when it comes to peers. He has only been openly defiant with a teacher once and that happened two weeks before this incident.
I am venting as you can probably tell. I just want to know if there is hope that with continued medical and psychological intervention we can turn this kid around, or is this a sign that his behavior is only going to get worse?
>>>>>>>>>> It will get worse if you don’t hunker down and implement the strategies in the eBook. If you are diligent with these strategies, his behavior is likely to improve.
He is on meds and for the most part does well at home but anytime there is a significant shift in the family dynamic, such as my husband and I going on vacation for 5 days without the kids or my older son getting a job and a car, we have a significant outburst with him.
I forgot to say that he got suspended from the bus for a belligerent comment, in the bus driver’s presence, in February the day before we left on our first vacation alone in 3 years. Has he just become a master at manipulating his environment to focus the attention on him or is he incapable of doing this on purpose?
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes …he is doing this on purpose – to get your intensity (I talk about ‘intensity-seeking’ a lot in the eBook).
Do we forgive some of this because he truly can't help it or do we just continue to be persistent with the discipline, consequences, and choosing our battles, then just hope and pray we win the war without losing our minds?
>>>>>>>>>> Be persistent. He’s not going to work for what YOU want, but he’ll work for what HE wants (this too is covered heavily in the eBook).
Mark
www.MyOutOfControlTeen.com
My son recently got suspended from school and is going back on Tuesday after 9 days. They are not going to put him in the general population because "in anger" he said to a friend "I could find her house and rape her if I wanted to." He is 13 and really had no idea what that meant but heard it on America's Most Wanted so he figured saying that would get her to stay away from him. This of course happened right after the VT shooting so that didn't help matters.
Luckily, I had just changed him from an LD IEP to and ED IEP to address his ODD and severe depressive disorder and social communication disorder that was diagnosed by his psychiatrist. They opted to not expel him but we got him into intensive individual counseling right away so we can maybe head off any other incidents.
>>>>>>>>>> Counseling is a traditional parenting strategy, which will have little or no benefit.
This is the first time he did something like this in school, so my husband and I have been wondering if this is a reaction to hearing the IEP accommodations listed out for him and then unconsciously testing his boundaries? We are also concerned that his obsession with girls (which is natural for most 13 y.o. but extreme in him) is going to get him in further trouble because he just does not understand social quos or personal and verbal boundaries when it comes to peers. He has only been openly defiant with a teacher once and that happened two weeks before this incident.
I am venting as you can probably tell. I just want to know if there is hope that with continued medical and psychological intervention we can turn this kid around, or is this a sign that his behavior is only going to get worse?
>>>>>>>>>> It will get worse if you don’t hunker down and implement the strategies in the eBook. If you are diligent with these strategies, his behavior is likely to improve.
He is on meds and for the most part does well at home but anytime there is a significant shift in the family dynamic, such as my husband and I going on vacation for 5 days without the kids or my older son getting a job and a car, we have a significant outburst with him.
I forgot to say that he got suspended from the bus for a belligerent comment, in the bus driver’s presence, in February the day before we left on our first vacation alone in 3 years. Has he just become a master at manipulating his environment to focus the attention on him or is he incapable of doing this on purpose?
>>>>>>>>>>> Yes …he is doing this on purpose – to get your intensity (I talk about ‘intensity-seeking’ a lot in the eBook).
Do we forgive some of this because he truly can't help it or do we just continue to be persistent with the discipline, consequences, and choosing our battles, then just hope and pray we win the war without losing our minds?
>>>>>>>>>> Be persistent. He’s not going to work for what YOU want, but he’ll work for what HE wants (this too is covered heavily in the eBook).
Mark
www.MyOutOfControlTeen.com
Help me please before I go insane...
"Hi Mark, I had emailed you earlier in the year about my 17 year old. I am writing again to seek your advice. I have read the email from the "Sad Mom" under the Empty Nest Syndrome tab linked to your email and I must say I am suffering almost the same fate now as her. My 17 year old daughter has now moved out of home to be with her father whom she hasn’t had much time for in recent times due to them not seeing eye to eye. Now that she has moved in with him it seems that he is giving in to her every demand.
My daughter is now seeing an 18 year old who comes from a broken home, whose father was abusive. This guy jumps from house to house after being kicked out of his fathers house, he moves to his mothers, then he will get kicked out of there so he moves in with his brother who lives with his de facto and newborn child and that’s where he lives at the moment. He just so happens to live just around the corner from where my daughter’s father is living so it is very convenient for her to have sleepovers (which happen regularly). I am fearful of never getting her back home in a stable household where she can be nurtured and gotten back on track.
My and my son's relationship with her is almost non-existent with her as this guy she is seeing is one of the most un-liked (in fact hated) guys in town and he has nothing going for him. He is in debt to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars as he was involved in a car accident where he crashed into a truck (uninsured of course) and because he was at fault is in debt up to his eyeballs. No need to say that he doesn’t work and is extremely unsettled in his life. He is even talking about leaving town now and my daughter is contemplating moving with him (she has only known him for a few months and formed a relationship with him just in the last couple of weeks).
I accept your advice to sad mom about empty nest syndrome but I fail to understand how there is nothing we can do to make them understand that living their life this way will be of no benefit to their future success in life. My daughter likewise has all but removed herself from my side of the family as she knows we do not agree with her behaviour. She has very little if anything to do with her other friends as well. I tried talking to her father about my concerns and he all but suggested that I just let her live her life and she will learn. I just cannot sit back and watch her destroy her and her family's life and for the sake of a trashy guy that will most likely hurt or bludge from her for the rest of her life.
Help me please before I go insane. I have been on antidepressants now for a week and at the moment don’t even feel like seeing my daughter as every time I do she "just makes me sick to the
stomach". I struggle to get through each day and am losing weight
because I can’t eat. I am not the kind of mum that won’t let go and if
this guy had anything going for him I wouldn’t have a problem with it. I
am sorry this message is so disjointed but I am just not thinking too
straight and am struggling also to keep my working life in order.
Regards ~ M.D."
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Hi M.D,
I know how you feel …and when I felt this way as a young parent, I distracted myself.
I distracted myself by focusing on all that was going right rather than on that was going wrong …by focusing on my blessings rather than my “curses” (which there is no such thing) …by regularly talking about my parenting struggles with someone I trusted …by accepting help and support when it was offered …by reminding myself that my responses are normal responses to a stressful situation …by giving myself permission to do whatever I needed to do to take care of myself.
Your body and mind will tell you what you need to do -- your job is to listen to them.
Your daughter will gain experience out in the real world – and experience is a great teacher (a much better teacher than you will be at this point …no offense).
Mark
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"Mark, Thanks for your response Mark and the comments are very much appreciated. Whilst I understand that it is important to learn from your own experiences my major concern is that at this point in her life, she is not thinking clearly at all and that she will make a mistake that she will have to live with for the rest of her life, ie lose her job because of her behaviour (I am told by her work mates that she is not herself at work), falling pregnant, or being the breadwinner and running around after this no-hoping guy. I know what you are saying is true and that no matter how much I object to her seeing him and the other less than nice friends she is getting about with she will only move further and further away but I struggle to sit back and pretend that everything is OK."
==> Effective Disciplinary Techniques for Defiant Teens and Preteens
I am so deeply worried that my sons will be somehow 'compelled' to try the tonne of bricks...
Hello Mark…
It is just after 2:30am and I am having difficulty sleeping, so perhaps sharing a few of my worrisome thoughts with you as my remote 'sounding board' may help.
I am so very concerned for our future. When push comes to shove, my sons seem to embrace failure and punishment. Let me try to piece things together to try to explain my deep concerns.
My husband had taken 4 months long service leave as the stress of our son's behaviours were taking their toll. Last month we went together as a family to a counsellor that is part of his employment benefits as he was preparing to return to work. Although somewhat better this year (no disappearing overnight or longer on the weekends, no demands for alcohol), we needed to address our son's behaviours that were building into more trouble at home (argumentative, unreasonable behaviours) and poor school performance (lateness, truancy among some other things related to poor decision making). It took my husband to repeatedly beg the boys to come to that counselling session. In the end they agreed, but ensured that we were late for the appointment. The counsellor set us a small challenge as a start, to manage the chronic lateness, just in the mornings getting ready for the day.
We agreed that our sons could wake themselves and get up later, at 8am rather than the 7:30am that we preferred, and we were to give the message of 'Your breakfast is on the table' if either were not up by 8:15am. I also agreed that I would cook their breakfast porridge and make their lunches. Our sons agreed that they would get themselves up, dress, make their beds, feed their pets, and be ready to leave between 8:45am and 8:48am. If they both were ready, then we agreed that they would be given use of the car to go to College. If they were not ready, at 9:50am I would drive them to College. The boys concerns were that I am always upset. I made it clear that I would definitely still be disappointed and upset if they succeeded in doing what they needed to do to get use of the car (what they wanted) and at the same time failed in lots of other areas of their lives (which is what they have tended to do). Well, the boys made a genuine effort for 4 days before challenging their part of the agreement, in escalating terms. My husband returned to work under these deteriorating conditions at home, which was what we had declared at the counselling session was the situation we were trying to avoid.
We continued with the plan and the problems escalated with reports of unexplained latenesses or entire absences from some classes and some other infractions with their friends. (Silly things - like one of my sons chose to ride on the roads with a fellow student, as a pillion passenger on a motorbike. This friend was on L-Plates. My son was without a helmet.)
All the while our sons insisted that they were doing better and we rewarded a 'seem to be doing better' stage with an OK to stay at home one weekend whilst we went on a working bee at our ski pad 2.5 hours drive away. The boys were left from Saturday morning to Sunday evening when my husband returned. I stayed on alone at the unit as there was more painting to be done. Ken was to return on Wednesday to pick me up. Instead, I received a phone call from him asking if the police had contacted me.
This was in relation to the criminal act that I mentioned last email. On the Monday, the boys had the use of the car as they were on time and they successfully took themselves to a pre-employment session after school (they had applied to work as labourers in the Cirque du Soleil pack down). Ken allowed them to use their computers unsupervised in their rooms that evening (to do school assignments and study for upcoming end of term tests). The Tuesday morning our sons were again ready on time and were given use of the car to go to College. Ken noticed that one had an extra bag with them. He assumed that this was for their gym gear (the boys do weight training 4 days per week). The Tuesday evening when Ken phoned, he said that everything was fine. He had no idea of what had taken place that day. This is usual. He is a wonderful, gentle man and does not recognise when trouble is looming.
This is what subsequently came to light...
On Monday evening our sons had been in contact by computer private chat (MSN) with a friend from high school that they do the gym work with. They would have missed their work out together due to the pre-employment session that their friend did not attend. During this chat session, these three young men planned to commit a robbery. It appears that their friend wanted a laptop and my sons wanted money to buy clothes. The mystery is that their friend just this year began receiving money from the government (youth allowance) and my sons, as I had said, had just applied for work to earn money that they could have put some of it towards the extra cost of the clothes that they wanted. Why on earth would they plan destroy this immediately after putting such effort in to secure a desirable casual labouring job?
It is totally beyond my comprehension, and this is the pattern of behaviour that really concerns me.
At a meeting with the Deputy Principal and School Counsellor at the College at the end of term (two weeks ago), the DP encouraged my sons to get up at 7am and to seek employment. After the holidays, if they wanted to return to College, then they could do so under a strictly controlled contract. In my attempts to get them working towards an earlier rise, I had them getting up at around 8am to start working in the garden by 9am, they responded by getting up later and later - after 10, after 11, after 11:30am (which has varied up and down).
We have seen the police this evening and my sons have signed forms to participate in Restorative Justice Conferencing. The Constable made it clear to my sons that if they demonstrate remorse, understand the impact on the victim, and perform the required community service outcomes of this conferencing, then the police may choose to end the matter there. Otherwise, they will be charged and be required to go to court and perhaps Juvenile Detention. The Constable also made it clear that he did not wish to see them before him in this way again as he would 'come down on them like a tonne of bricks'.
Mark, I am so deeply worried that my sons will be somehow 'compelled' to try the tonne of bricks.
You said in your reply email that I need to get a good diagnosis if there is bipolar tendencies. I don't know of any way that I could possibly get either of them to attend another session with anyone (school counsellor, Ken's work counsellor, nor a psychiatrist). Also, I am very uncomfortable with the prospect of using strong medications (and the latest reports on ADHD medicating lend some credence to my concerns in that area). Instead, I have been building the idea of us all seeing a new family doctor (as our own wonderful, trusted, female family doctor we have attended since the boys were born retired in March). The doctor that I would like us to see is a man and a Naturopathic GP. I plan to make the appointments tomorrow, and hopefully we won't have to wait too many weeks to get in.
As to how I have gone this weekend? I was at the end of my rope with one son who had been unreasonable all day Friday, so eventually phoned to ask Ken to come home early. That was 4pm. On Saturday we test drove a vehicle that we are considering for the Franchise business. My other son was with me and became unreasonable in the car whilst I was driving. I was able to dilute the behaviour to a tolerable level. Tonight I gave warning then took the remote and aerial cable from the TV. If they chose to go to bed then they could have the TV back tomorrow, if not it would be 3 days. I did not respond to their arguments, calmly restated the request and consequences for their choices and left them to it. I asked my husband to do a follow up 5 minutes later as I was all done in. Happily, concurrently, I heard the boys going to the kitchen to make the last protein drink getting ready for bed.
I am exhausted. I will send this now. I would very much appreciate your wise insights and strategies to help me through this. I say me, as it was after my husband had turned out the light tonight that I insisted he finish reading the printed material on your program. He doesn't deliberately undermine, but undermine he has a tendency to do. Hopefully he can gain a better understanding with your step by step program so that we can achieve a more consistent approach for our sons. There is just too much on our plates to deal with. Our problems seem insurmountable, our difficult path appears unalterable, but there is much love in our home and that is the glue that binds us.
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Hi M.,
It would be best for you to allow your sons to experience painful emotions associated with their poor choices ...I can see that you are spending a lot of time and energy trying to "save" them from themselves. This, along with counseling, is a traditional parenting strategy that will continue to make a bad problem worse.
If they choose not to follow through with the expectations (i.e., perform the required community service outcomes of this conferencing), then they will choose the consequence. Please do not get in the way of letting this wonderful opportunity for them to gain experience/wisdom take it's course.
I'm concerned that you are taking on too much responsibility. If they do not want to go to a doc for an eval ...and if they choose not to take appropriate meds, then you have to begin the business of taking care of yourself in the form of "letting go." Otherwise, YOU will become ill -- both physically and emotionally.
Mark
www.MyOutOfControlTeens.com
````````````````````````
Mark,
Yes, you are absolutely right. It happened to my mother, who eventually succumbed to terminal cancer. I have started taking care of myself as of yesterday after a long conversation with a dear wise long time (older) friend. I am not so concerned with the imminent restorative justice, but more the longer term. I won't go that road. I have appointments with the new doctor for my husband and sons as well, but me first.
Thanks Mark. I can turn now and feel that I can navigate a better course.
M.
It is just after 2:30am and I am having difficulty sleeping, so perhaps sharing a few of my worrisome thoughts with you as my remote 'sounding board' may help.
I am so very concerned for our future. When push comes to shove, my sons seem to embrace failure and punishment. Let me try to piece things together to try to explain my deep concerns.
My husband had taken 4 months long service leave as the stress of our son's behaviours were taking their toll. Last month we went together as a family to a counsellor that is part of his employment benefits as he was preparing to return to work. Although somewhat better this year (no disappearing overnight or longer on the weekends, no demands for alcohol), we needed to address our son's behaviours that were building into more trouble at home (argumentative, unreasonable behaviours) and poor school performance (lateness, truancy among some other things related to poor decision making). It took my husband to repeatedly beg the boys to come to that counselling session. In the end they agreed, but ensured that we were late for the appointment. The counsellor set us a small challenge as a start, to manage the chronic lateness, just in the mornings getting ready for the day.
We agreed that our sons could wake themselves and get up later, at 8am rather than the 7:30am that we preferred, and we were to give the message of 'Your breakfast is on the table' if either were not up by 8:15am. I also agreed that I would cook their breakfast porridge and make their lunches. Our sons agreed that they would get themselves up, dress, make their beds, feed their pets, and be ready to leave between 8:45am and 8:48am. If they both were ready, then we agreed that they would be given use of the car to go to College. If they were not ready, at 9:50am I would drive them to College. The boys concerns were that I am always upset. I made it clear that I would definitely still be disappointed and upset if they succeeded in doing what they needed to do to get use of the car (what they wanted) and at the same time failed in lots of other areas of their lives (which is what they have tended to do). Well, the boys made a genuine effort for 4 days before challenging their part of the agreement, in escalating terms. My husband returned to work under these deteriorating conditions at home, which was what we had declared at the counselling session was the situation we were trying to avoid.
We continued with the plan and the problems escalated with reports of unexplained latenesses or entire absences from some classes and some other infractions with their friends. (Silly things - like one of my sons chose to ride on the roads with a fellow student, as a pillion passenger on a motorbike. This friend was on L-Plates. My son was without a helmet.)
All the while our sons insisted that they were doing better and we rewarded a 'seem to be doing better' stage with an OK to stay at home one weekend whilst we went on a working bee at our ski pad 2.5 hours drive away. The boys were left from Saturday morning to Sunday evening when my husband returned. I stayed on alone at the unit as there was more painting to be done. Ken was to return on Wednesday to pick me up. Instead, I received a phone call from him asking if the police had contacted me.
This was in relation to the criminal act that I mentioned last email. On the Monday, the boys had the use of the car as they were on time and they successfully took themselves to a pre-employment session after school (they had applied to work as labourers in the Cirque du Soleil pack down). Ken allowed them to use their computers unsupervised in their rooms that evening (to do school assignments and study for upcoming end of term tests). The Tuesday morning our sons were again ready on time and were given use of the car to go to College. Ken noticed that one had an extra bag with them. He assumed that this was for their gym gear (the boys do weight training 4 days per week). The Tuesday evening when Ken phoned, he said that everything was fine. He had no idea of what had taken place that day. This is usual. He is a wonderful, gentle man and does not recognise when trouble is looming.
This is what subsequently came to light...
On Monday evening our sons had been in contact by computer private chat (MSN) with a friend from high school that they do the gym work with. They would have missed their work out together due to the pre-employment session that their friend did not attend. During this chat session, these three young men planned to commit a robbery. It appears that their friend wanted a laptop and my sons wanted money to buy clothes. The mystery is that their friend just this year began receiving money from the government (youth allowance) and my sons, as I had said, had just applied for work to earn money that they could have put some of it towards the extra cost of the clothes that they wanted. Why on earth would they plan destroy this immediately after putting such effort in to secure a desirable casual labouring job?
It is totally beyond my comprehension, and this is the pattern of behaviour that really concerns me.
At a meeting with the Deputy Principal and School Counsellor at the College at the end of term (two weeks ago), the DP encouraged my sons to get up at 7am and to seek employment. After the holidays, if they wanted to return to College, then they could do so under a strictly controlled contract. In my attempts to get them working towards an earlier rise, I had them getting up at around 8am to start working in the garden by 9am, they responded by getting up later and later - after 10, after 11, after 11:30am (which has varied up and down).
We have seen the police this evening and my sons have signed forms to participate in Restorative Justice Conferencing. The Constable made it clear to my sons that if they demonstrate remorse, understand the impact on the victim, and perform the required community service outcomes of this conferencing, then the police may choose to end the matter there. Otherwise, they will be charged and be required to go to court and perhaps Juvenile Detention. The Constable also made it clear that he did not wish to see them before him in this way again as he would 'come down on them like a tonne of bricks'.
Mark, I am so deeply worried that my sons will be somehow 'compelled' to try the tonne of bricks.
You said in your reply email that I need to get a good diagnosis if there is bipolar tendencies. I don't know of any way that I could possibly get either of them to attend another session with anyone (school counsellor, Ken's work counsellor, nor a psychiatrist). Also, I am very uncomfortable with the prospect of using strong medications (and the latest reports on ADHD medicating lend some credence to my concerns in that area). Instead, I have been building the idea of us all seeing a new family doctor (as our own wonderful, trusted, female family doctor we have attended since the boys were born retired in March). The doctor that I would like us to see is a man and a Naturopathic GP. I plan to make the appointments tomorrow, and hopefully we won't have to wait too many weeks to get in.
As to how I have gone this weekend? I was at the end of my rope with one son who had been unreasonable all day Friday, so eventually phoned to ask Ken to come home early. That was 4pm. On Saturday we test drove a vehicle that we are considering for the Franchise business. My other son was with me and became unreasonable in the car whilst I was driving. I was able to dilute the behaviour to a tolerable level. Tonight I gave warning then took the remote and aerial cable from the TV. If they chose to go to bed then they could have the TV back tomorrow, if not it would be 3 days. I did not respond to their arguments, calmly restated the request and consequences for their choices and left them to it. I asked my husband to do a follow up 5 minutes later as I was all done in. Happily, concurrently, I heard the boys going to the kitchen to make the last protein drink getting ready for bed.
I am exhausted. I will send this now. I would very much appreciate your wise insights and strategies to help me through this. I say me, as it was after my husband had turned out the light tonight that I insisted he finish reading the printed material on your program. He doesn't deliberately undermine, but undermine he has a tendency to do. Hopefully he can gain a better understanding with your step by step program so that we can achieve a more consistent approach for our sons. There is just too much on our plates to deal with. Our problems seem insurmountable, our difficult path appears unalterable, but there is much love in our home and that is the glue that binds us.
``````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````
Hi M.,
It would be best for you to allow your sons to experience painful emotions associated with their poor choices ...I can see that you are spending a lot of time and energy trying to "save" them from themselves. This, along with counseling, is a traditional parenting strategy that will continue to make a bad problem worse.
If they choose not to follow through with the expectations (i.e., perform the required community service outcomes of this conferencing), then they will choose the consequence. Please do not get in the way of letting this wonderful opportunity for them to gain experience/wisdom take it's course.
I'm concerned that you are taking on too much responsibility. If they do not want to go to a doc for an eval ...and if they choose not to take appropriate meds, then you have to begin the business of taking care of yourself in the form of "letting go." Otherwise, YOU will become ill -- both physically and emotionally.
Mark
www.MyOutOfControlTeens.com
````````````````````````
Mark,
Yes, you are absolutely right. It happened to my mother, who eventually succumbed to terminal cancer. I have started taking care of myself as of yesterday after a long conversation with a dear wise long time (older) friend. I am not so concerned with the imminent restorative justice, but more the longer term. I won't go that road. I have appointments with the new doctor for my husband and sons as well, but me first.
Thanks Mark. I can turn now and feel that I can navigate a better course.
M.
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