When Your Preteen Seems Unaffected by Discipline

Mr. Mark, I wrote to you about a month ago very concern about the behavior of my 11 year old daughter. You responded very promptly to my e-mail. Thank you very much. We adopted 3 siblings in March 2019. They are 2 twins boys 7 yrs. old and their sister 11 yrs. old. They are very bright, smart and intelligent kids and make us very happy. We haven't experience any educational problems with them. They go to daycare and have learned numbers and letters, shapes and colors at the same rate as the other kids in their school. I purchased and have read your e-book "My out of control teen" and have found it very useful. You explain to me in your e-mail the behavioral problems that adopted children usually have because of the unknown medical history of their birth parents. I have tried your techniques and procedures explained in your book, but our daughter is still giving her teachers a lot of trouble at school to the point that they don't know what else to do.

When she is with us, she controls herself or at least follows directions, but we have to be with our eyes or her at all times. We praise them (4:1), caught them doing good, and I have a ticket system but nothing seem to work. At school she is always answering back, bossing around, disrupting class and for the last 2 weeks at nap time at school, she starts calling her friends names out loud to the point that they have to pull her out of the class because she doesn't let them rest. Some people tell me to ignore this and let the school deal with the behavior at school. But I just can’t seem to let that go. She knows they tell me about it every time she is been send to the office or put in time out and them talk about it like she is proud of what she have done. I feel that if I don't do anything about it she might think that it is O.K. to misbehave at school. I sit her at home to write numbers and letters and I have taken her toys, TV time and she has not come to family gatherings. Nothing works, she just doesn't seem to care about anything.

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If I heard you right, she behaves acceptably at home, but not at school. You will do well to take the lead by attempting to educate her teachers about the special behavior patterns that many adopted children exhibit. I assume (which is dangerous of course) that her teachers are treating your daughter like they would any other girl. This, unfortunately, will continue to waste their time and energy.

Your daughter is not an emotionless robot who is immune to emotional pain. So I disagree with you when you say, “she doesn’t care about anything.” She has something that she really values – but it sounds like you haven’t found what that is yet. Find out what she really values. When you find it, it will be your greatest bargaining chip.

 

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Here’s an example of what I’m talking about:

I had a mother who emailed me with nearly the same dilemma as you. She said she takes her son’s toys away, grounds him for 3 days with no TV, computer, etc. But “he doesn’t care.” All he did was sit on the floor of his bedroom and read comic books. He just hid out in his room and wouldn’t come out. BUT WAIT. He’s isolating in his room and reading? Then there you go! I had this mother ground him FROM his room – which he despised greatly because he didn’t want to be around anyone while on discipline. The mother literally locked him out of his room (except at night to sleep). After he completed his 3-day discipline, his “room privileges” were restored.

As cruel and unusual as it sounds, you have to find out “where it’s going to hurt” (i.e., what will evoke uncomfortable feelings in your daughter when she makes poor behavior choices). Then you implement that “place of pain” whenever she needs a consequence – but only for 1-3 days. I’m not talking about emotional abandonment here – I’m talking about providing direction and support.

She’s never going to work for what you want, but she will work for what she wants.

What does she like the most? Are you pouring on a lot of attention and intensity when things are going wrong? She is getting some kind of payoff for “non-compliance.” How can I be so certain of this? Because all behavior has a motive behind it. And that motive is usually to attract pleasure or avoid pain.

Below is a summary of all the assignments I gave you in the eBook. If parents do not implement most of these assignments, it is often the "kiss of failure." For example, the transmission in your car has hundreds of parts, but if just one little tiny part is not working -- the whole transmission does not work. The same is true with this "parent program." Omit just one strategy, and the whole plan runs the risk of failing.

1. Are you asking your daughter at least one question each day that cannot be answered with a simple "yes" or a "no" to demonstrate that you are interested in what is going on in her life? (page 20 of the printable version of eBook)

2. Are you saying to her "I love you" everyday and expecting nothing in return? (page 20)

3. Are you eating dinner together at least one evening each week -- either at home or out? (page 20)

4. Do you use "The Art of Saying Yes" whenever your answer is yes? (page 25)

5. Do you use "The The Art of Saying - and Sticking With - No" whenever your answer is no? (page 25)

6. Do you catch her in the act of doing something right at least once each day? (page 25)

7. Do you use the "When You Want Something From Your Kid" approach as needed? (page 31)

8. Do you give her at least one chore each day? (page 31)

9. Do you find something fun to do with her each week? (page 54)

10. Do you use the "I noticed ...I felt ...Listen" approach when something unexpected pops-up? (bottom of page 50)

11. When you are undecided about what to say or do in any particular situation, are you asking yourself the following question: "Will this promote the development of self-reliance in my daughter, or will this inhibit the development of self-reliance?"

If it is supportive of self-reliance, say it or do it. If it is not supportive, don't!

12. Is she EARNING ALL of her stuff and freedom? (see "Self-Reliance Cycle" - page 19)

If you answered "no" to any of the above, you are missing some important pieces to the puzzle. Most parents DO miss a few pieces initially -- you can't be expected to remember everything! But don't get frustrated and give up. We must be willing to hang in there for the long haul.

I'm talking about refinement here. Refinement is a necessary tool to use in order to truly be successful with these parenting strategies.

HERE IS THE GOOD NEWS: Parents who refine are, on average, 95% - 100% successful at getting the parent-child difficulties reduced in intensity and severity (i.e., the problems are easily managed).

The same can be true in your case. Don’t give up just yet. Please continue to refine by emailing me as needed over the next few months. Refinement is a process, not a one-time event.

Mark Hutten, M.A.

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Teenage Son Assaults Mother

"Hi Mark, I'm new to this site. I have a couple of questions and scenarios that I would like to run by you. I have just charged my 17 year old with assault and put him out of the house, I was informed that he could go to a shelter, however there are no beds available at the shelter and he is now trying to come back home, as he has burned his bridges everywhere else. There is a no contact order in place, he cannot be within 100 ft of the house, and he is only permitted to contact me by phone. This is part of the scenario, there is more involved, I desperately need some advice. Could you please get back to me?"

First of all, I am very proud of you for having the backbone to implement a consequence commensurate with your son’s behavior. You did NOT try to “save” him from uncomfortable emotions associated with his poor choices.

As punitive as it may sound, out-of-control teens need an element of discomfort before they will change. But unfortunately, most parents think they are doing the right thing by rescuing their child from painful consequences, which does far more damage than good.

Just so you’ll know, you are on track! Your biggest battle now will be dealing with feelings of guilt – and having moments where you debate in your head whether or not you have made the right decision. You may also have times when you feel sorry for your son. This is O.K. – it comes with the territory.

Allow his consequence to take its full course. Then at some point in the future (when, in your gut, it feels right), tell your son that he’s welcome to come home – but under certain stipulations (here you will want to put a set of house rules in the form of a written contract).

Stay the course. Just for the short term, he needs to stay away from you. Where he sleeps is his problem. This is tough love (which is often tougher on the parent than the child).

If you backtrack and try to erase your son's current discomfort, you will be sending a strong message that abusing women has no real consequences. This, in turn, sets him up for failure in future relationships with women (his future wife may thank you for sticking to your guns today).

Mark Hutten, M.A.

 

==> My Out-of-Control Teen: Help for Parents

"Tough Love" for Unruly teens

"Well, I took the car away because he missed his curfew last night by 50 minutes. Total attitude all day. Now he has packed his things and left - after a big scene. I tried to remain calm, did not chase but am obviously concerned as to where he is. I think I am dealing with a child that is beyond what I can handle. We have tried counseling at a local level and were unsuccessful since he manipulated it. A lot of money and weak results. He refuses to go back. We may need an intervention program/boarding school. Suggestions on how we investigate that? Thank you again."

Welcome to the world of tough love [which is often tougher on the parent than the child].

Counseling for "behavior problems" is just another traditional parenting strategy that rarely [if ever] has any positive outcome.

I disagree that he is beyond what you can handle, and I would encourage you not to entertain the idea of a boarding school at this point. I think you are wanting a quick fix, but as you know, there is no such thing.

I think you handled this situation very well. You followed through with a consequence ...you put on your poker face and did not give your son an unhealthy dose of intensity when he needed it the most. You have been successful with this particular battle. But in order to win the war, you must take things one step at a time. Fight only one battle at a time. And do not allow yourself to roll over and simply accept feelings of being overwhelmed and defeated without challenging those feelings.

If you don't know where he's staying, you should call the police and file a run away complaint (mostly to cover your ass from a liability standpoint; he's still your responsibility). If you do know where he's staying - and it's a safe place - let him discover for himself how it feels to be in a state of discomfort and alienation. Remember, you're in this thing for the long haul.

You son is trying - once again - to dangle a hook in front of your nose in hopes that you'll bite. He wants you to feel sorry for him ...to re-think your new disciplinary strategies ...to doubt yourself. Don't bite! When you bite, he wins - and you have to start all over again.

This is the time when parents are encouraged to hold their ground, to seek the support of other family members/friends, and to cultivate the art of taking care of themselves.

When you son comes to the realization that you're serious about these matters and that you're not going to cave-in [which you may have done a hundred times before], he'll be the one to do some re-thinking.

Mark Hutten, M.A.


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Daughter Asserts She Is "Moving Out"

"Mark, Thank you for always heading me in the right direction. Our home is really better since following the online e-book suggestions. My daughter turns 18 in May and she has used the 'I am moving out' deal. I am keeping my poker face and letting her know that will be her choice. The thing that I am having a question with is, if she stays in our home and persists to see this boy, who has gone against us and done some pretty awful things, how do we proceed? Also, she is not wanting to get on birth control. How do you feel about the sex issue? Thanks again, M."

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Hi M.,

Re: “…how do we proceed?”

First of all, I would encourage her to move out. Talk about it with her …make it sound exciting …it’s a new beginning …maybe go apartment shopping, etc. Remember: self-reliance is key. If she’s thinking about moving out on her own, she’s wanting to develop self-reliance at some level.

You will not be able to keep her from seeing her boyfriend. And, unfortunately, the more you make an issue of it, the more appeal that boy will have in her eyes. Thus, you really only have two options: (a) insist she move out, or (b) let her live at home without trying to control the “boyfriend problem.”

Re: “How do you feel about the sex issue?”

It sounds like she may want to become pregnant. The only person she will truly listen to will be another female approximately her age who got pregnant at an early age. If you know anyone like this, maybe she can fill your daughter in on the huge responsibility associated with early pregnancy (e.g., immature father who bails out of the relationship due to the stress involved, financial strain, inability to further education, etc.). 

Here are a few more facts to share with your daughter:

• Children born to teen mothers are at higher risk of poor parenting because their mothers - and often their fathers as well - are typically too young to master the demanding job of being a parent.
• Children born to teen mothers often suffer from higher rates of low birth weight and related health problems. 
• Children of teens are 50 percent more likely to repeat a grade, they perform much worse on standardized tests, and ultimately they are less likely to complete high school than if their mothers had delayed childbearing.
• Common medical problems among adolescent mothers include poor weight gain, pregnancy-induced hypertension, anemia, sexually transmitted diseases (STDs), and cephalopelvic disproportion. 
• Despite having more health problems than the children of older mothers, the children of teen mothers receive less medical care and treatment. 
• Later in life, adolescent mothers tend to be at greater risk for obesity and hypertension than women who were not teenagers when they had their first child.
• Less than one-third of teens who begin their families before age 18 ever earn a high school diploma, and only 1.5% earn a college degree by the age of 30.
• Teen mothers are less likely to complete school and more likely to be single parents. 
• Teen pregnancy is closely linked to poverty and single parenthood.

Mark Hutten, M.A.

 

==> My Out-of-Control Teen: Help for Parents

Out-of-Control Son Goes to Juvenile Detention and Mom is Beside Herself

Mark, Monday evening was hopefully the low point for M. He did not go to counseling. Later on he "stole" my cell phone off the counter and would not give it back (10:45pm). I told him calmly he had until 11:30pm then I would shut off the service and purchase a new one the next day (on his dime) and I would take his laptop until then. He refused, and kept trying to demand things. He started with the F words, then he was told he lost the computer for 24hr (to begin when the swearing stopped). I asked him at 11:30pm for my phone. House phone not working as we believe he tried to hook his laptop to our desktop internet service (cable modem and disabled our house phone) so took husbands cell to call. He now is trying to grab phones. I am leaving the house to move the laptop to safekeeping (not our home). I am in garage and he is trying to come after me. Husband tries to block his exit and gets hit in the eye--a HUGE shiner (he thinks from an elbow). 911 called and now M taken to Juve.

Court yesterday and they obviously detain him. His next hearing is 1/3/19. Whole nuclear family is reeling and the emotions change often. Oldest son now does tell us M has used drugs. He confiscated some vicodin and a short straw from him a week or two ago and caught him another time he thinks rolling a joint with 2 friends (who are NOT supposed to be in our home). He did not tell us because he did not want to be the "snitch" as he feels I betray his confidences (I may sometimes but really try not to). He also had a straw and a bag of pills (the police did not feel they were illegal or rx) when he was caught shoplifting and I also caught him with some pale yellow powder and a straw on Saturday. Now I'm wondering if he is on drugs. Can you tell me any more information on snorting vicodin? His urine test was clean. (dont know what was included or how long vicodin lasts).

Yesterday after court I get a phone call from some woman I've never heard of. She proceeds to tell me M was at her house Saturday night (when he went AWOL), no adults were home, and is told by her son that M (who she had never met before) threw her dog into a wall, broke it's leg and the bill is $500. She is wanting compensation. She says M is denying it. He also was with 2 maybe 3 other boys who I have not met but are bad--into drinking, drugs, fights, gone all night etc. (Don't know them so don't know the home situation). I won't get to see M until Monday, and frankly don't believe a word he says anymore even if I do ask him about it. I have my attorney friend looking into this from a legal standpoint. (Heresay and not 100% sure of the facts etc. do we pay or wait for a police report, etc.) as $500 on top of everything else is almost too hard to take, but if he's guilty of course we would pay.

Mark, what do we do now that he's gone? Yes, we are finally relaxed and safe in our home. We will go see him on visiting days. What do we say? Do we keep it casual, or ask about his school and sessions and how things are in juve? What if he does not want to see us? What do we tell the relatives (who we really don't wish to share all the details with)?

This is a totally new situation for us and our family as no one in our family or close friends have had this difficulty. Thanks, J.

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Hi J.,

First of all, you handled the “cell phone theft” incident very well. That’s you being successful – again!

Re: snorting vicodin—

Vicodin and other prescription narcotics constitute the most-abused group of prescription drugs, according to the National Household Survey, released in 2006. Of the 6.4 million Americans who reported misusing prescription drugs in the previous year, more than 73 percent misused prescription pain relievers.

Vicodin is NOT time released, so people who abuse can swallow the pill or snort it for immediate effects. The risk of both physical and psychological dependence on Vicodin is high. Users may experience withdrawal symptoms after as few as 5-7 days of continuous use. Withdrawal symptoms include chills, irritability, severe anxiety, headaches, and insomnia.

Chemically similar to heroin, Vicodin increases the activity of a key neurotransmitter, dopamine, triggering such an intense euphoria that users keep coming back for more -- and still more, after that.

Re: pay or wait for a police report—

Wait until all the facts are in.

Re: what do we do now that he's gone?

Be thankful he’s where he should be for now. He was about to destroy himself. At least he’s alive!

Re: What do we say? Do we keep it casual, or ask about his school and sessions and how things are in juve?

I think you should say whatever is on your heart – but DO NOT display any emotion of regret, guilt, feeling sorry, etc. Otherwise, he gets a big payoff by knowing he has successfully pushed your buttons (again).

Re: What if he does not want to see us?

Let him have his “mad time.” After he cools down, he’ll have a change of heart.

Re: What do we tell the relatives (who we really don't wish to share all the details with)?

When family inquires, say “he’s going through some difficult times right now, we’ll have to update you on it later.”

I’m glad your son was given a mandatory time-out before he did some permanent damage to himself or others. Other juveniles who have gone this deep into self-destruction have not been as fortunate.

Mark Hutten, M.A.

 

==> My Out-of-Control Teen: Help for Parents

Grandma Plays "Mediator" in the Family

With Christmas almost here, i was hoping you could give me some advice. I have been trying the tough love approach with my granddaughter, who's 11 and has been a handful. She had been living with her dad in a blended family along with her 9 yr. old sister. They were having week-ends with their mom, which didn't always work out. The last time her dad went to pick her up she refused to go with him, he was getting annoyed and yanked her by the coat sleeve, now the mom and her have claimed that he hit her and have charged him with assault. Until all this is settled in court they can't speak or see each other. The mom is unstable, chronic liar and trouble-maker since day one, i don't think she even has a conscience. She also lets her dress provocatively and she smokes. The whole family has always spent Christmas Eve together at our house so i'm finding it hard. I'm so very tired of all the mom’s games and would like to follow this through ...but i've be told by my oldest son that i might live to regret it. Thanks for any help you can give....

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Let me make sure I understand:

• Your granddaughter and her father are court-ordered not to have contact.
• Now there is some division in the family.
• But you want to have the usual Christmas Eve get-together.

Actually I don’t see how this is possible, because someone will have to be left out (i.e., either your granddaughter or her father).

You didn’t mention where your granddaughter is living. Also, is her father your son?

In any event, Christmas time is especially important to children. Therefore, the right thing to do is to work it out so that your granddaughter can spend Christmas Eve with you. Also, you could have 2 get-togethers -- one that includes the father, and another one with the granddaughter (different times of course).

I can see you’re stuck in the middle. Choose to stay out of the business of playing mediator. In situations like these, the mediator tends to make a bad problem worse by attempting to control things that are not controllable.

Mark Hutten,, M.A.

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Son Is In The Juvenile Justice System Now

Mark, Well, it's been 11 days since M has been in the JJS. The visit was awkward to say the least. And our dismay to see that another "friend" who we have been discouraging (and being pretty successful with) was also in!! Needless to say, our emotions are still on a roller-coaster. M has been seen by a counselor while there and FINALLY there has been exchange of information between his counselor and the JSS. (We had been requesting this for over a year/sent in the paper work and still not done). Well, the JJS counselor called me on Tuesday and we talked for a while. She feels M is in a deep depression. He has not felt loved since very small, we love our other children, he doesn't make eye contact, no inflection of voice, apathy, etc. (This is VERY hard to hear). Our regular counselor has recently told us of this too.

==> Not to minimize his feelings, but most “out-of-control” teenagers feel unloved and mistreated – this is nothing new. And of course he’s depressed – he’s locked-up. Who wouldn’t be?

Also, counselors do NOT get a true reading on a child’s general attitude while the child is in a facility. I regularly visit my juvenile probationers who happen to be incarcerated. They all have a different attitude in jail compared to when they are out. When they return home, there’s about a 2-week honeymoon period in which the child behaves appropriately. After the honeymoon though, the child returns to his original problematic behavior (unless, of course, the parent is making parenting-changes on her end).

As harsh as it sounds, out-of-control teens need to feel an element of discomfort before they will change – this is not cruel and usual punishment however – it’s tough love (which is often tougher on the parent than the child).

An easy trap for parents to fall into at this point is to (a) feel sorry for the child, (b) to doubt their decisions and parenting strategies, and (c) to feel like a failure as a parent, etc.

CAUTION: Beware of falling into this trap. Stay the course. Positive change is occurring!

M has been approached about meds and had refused them. The new counselor T (who unfortunately is quitting JJS) has been pretty confrontational with M and really pushed him for answers (not I don't know/care). The regular counselor A has been seeing him for over a year and has not shared that they are doing any of this. What is your advice on the direction this should take? If we need to change counselors we will. This also may be an act. Who knows anymore?

== > Go with the counselors who will challenge your son and who will not fall for the usual manipulations that teens cough-up during these rough times.

Yesterday he was seen by a psychiatrist who has dx him with ADHD and has prescribed adderall. When I re-read the info on it, I can see LOADS of characteristics. We had 1 teacher in elementary school suggest this, but the physician and subsequent teachers did not find any basis to this. Again we feel horrible if this is what is causing his difficulties. She feels the rx may help with the depression also. Again, your input on this would be great.

== > I’m not a proponent for ADHD meds or antidepressants for adolescents. My experience reveals that (a) insisting the child take meds is just another potential battle zone and (b) they end up either selling them to friends or abusing them. Behavioral modification is a much better course than pharmacotherapy.

Anyway, my biggest dilemma is how to handle things when he is released back home (we won't know until 1/3/08 but seem to think from the counselor and M tells us the PO also that he will get "intensive probation" whatever that is).

== > Intensive probation means he will have weekly contact with a PO, possibly have weekly urine screens, have stiffer consequences for violating the probation contact, etc.

My husband wants to give almost everything back (no cell phone or car) as he has "done his time" and to make a fresh start. He would get all of his clothes, computer (no internet), TV/playstation in his room, use of house phone. I am OK with this if this is what should happen. He did not EARN this back in the home, but is staying @ JJS for 24 days enough? Again, we have never dealt with this before and really want to do the right thing.

== > I agree with your husband. Your son has received a “natural consequence.” A fresh start would be in order.

Christmas will be really hard--do we have a "do-over" when he comes home and leave all the decorations up and have baked items, etc? We are not allowed to bring him ANYTHING for our visit on Christmas.

== > No. Missing Christmas is part of the natural consequence. You can give him his gifts when he comes home however. Do NOT over-indulge out of a sense of guilt however.

Bottom line: Your son is developing emotional muscles that he would never have developed had he not gone through this very uncomfortable experience. Remind him that this is just the beginning of his pain [now that he is in the radar of probation] if he doesn’t get with the program.

Thanks for your wisdom and experience and have a peaceful, wonderful holiday. I am sure to e-mail you again soon.

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