Should You "Spy" on Your Sneaky Teenager?

“Should you secretly snoop on your teenage child? I am not talking about where you're open with them about your surveillance. I am talking about clandestine snooping: Reading their e-mail …checking their text messages …reading their diaries …eavesdropping on their conversations with friends …searching their room …searching their jeans -- all in secret.”

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Probably. The obvious argument for secret snooping is that you might discover something serious that you would not have known about otherwise. Maybe they are having sex with much older partners. Maybe they are selling drugs. Maybe they are thinking about suicide.

Secret snooping has a definite downside. It is dishonest. And if they find out - which they often do - kids feel betrayed.

I don't like snooping. I especially don't like secret snooping. That said, I am a believer in not being too trusting of your teenagers. Mom & dads regularly underestimate their kid's involvement in risky behavior. And teens do all they can do to keep those activities hidden from us. Fortunately, there are many things you can do before resorting to secrecy.

The first is to keep an ongoing relationship with your kids. They may at times push you away, but don't take it personally. Keep going back for more. The closer your relationship with them, the more likely they will share their world with you.

Second, when they go out, ask questions. The parent of a teenager needs to become an expert at asking very specific questions: Where are you going? Who are you going with? What will you be doing? The more specific details you demand, the less room they have for risky behavior.

Third, tell them what you consider serious risks and why - what you really think about sex, drugs, drinking.

Your last tool is open surveillance - in effect, snooping, but with their knowledge.

Snooping is a personal decision based on what you as a parent are comfortable with. Too little oversight risks giving too much wiggle room. Too much risks full rebellion. But you may want to be open about it. This is surveillance they may hate, but they know you are doing it.

Ultimately, snooping is one of those “do-the-ends-justify-the-means” deals.

Mark Hutten, M.A.

==> JOIN Online Parent Support

He just leaves early in the day and shows up after we're asleep...

T__ and I joined your website for our 16 year old quite a few months back. Let me say this after having gone through many different programs for difficult teenagers, your program is very solid. We have told our current counselors and connections about it so that other parents may use your very good resources, too.

== > Thank you for your kinds words.

Our son is to the point now where he no longer argues about items (this should be a good thing). He just says "ok" and then takes off. He said that he really doesn't need us as parents, he doesn't need to do the chores or contribute anymore, and he just leaves early in the day and shows up after we're asleep.

== > You can file runaway charges. Also, if he’s violating curfew – that’s another legal charge that will need to go to court.

We have gone through his room and removed his negative influences - computer, clothing, accessories, electronic gadgets, etc. We left positive things, like a bed, desk, guitar (as an outlet), and normal school clothing.

== > Did you include, “If you choose to be home by the designated time for a period of 3 days – then you get all your stuff back” …?

We have filed unruly and missing charges, and we're in a juvenile court diversion program. Both sides basically tell us that because he's not doing anything violent or really bad, the court is not going to do anything to him. Here's someone that knows how to ride the system (and seems to have lost respect for the system).

== > That’s true, but here’s the upshot: You are protecting yourself from some potential liability issues. For example, if something bad happened to your son – or if your son committed a harmful act to others or their property, you will have solid evidence that you tried your best to get him “off the streets.”

Part of the problem is that his friends and their parents just give food, shelter, money, etc, because he is very charming to them. He misleads them about his situation to his benefit. We asked them why they do it, and they just say that they like doing it.

== > Two points here: (1) Of course he misleads …that’s what all kids do. Don’t worry about it. (2) Nothing is as comfortable as “home.” So don’t be fooled into thinking that he is escaping uncomfortable emotions associated with his poor choices. I can see that he is doing a class “A” job of convincing you that your disciplinary techniques are having no effect.

Any advice where to go from here would be helpful. We are sticking with the program basics, and we are hoping it will kick in again.

== > I think you’ll need to kick it up a notch.

You could lock him out of the house – but he may just pound on the door and wake everybody up. Even if the cops showed up, all they would do is give him a short, meaningless lecture and tell you to let him in.

A better idea would be to ground him FROM his room. Find a way to keep the door locked (and only you have a key). Bottom line, he is – as you say – playing the system. He has a right to live in your house – but he does not have a right to have a private bedroom. A private bedroom is a privilege – a privilege that’s EARNED by following house rules.

One of questions is this - does the "no free handouts" cover school expenses and such?

== > No. Basic needs are not fair game for confiscation.

We wanted him to earn his tool money for his new vocation school, but he hasn't done (even though he says it means something to him). He says "not to worry about it" whenever we bring it up, and he's definitely not close to being ready in four days. He lost most all of his books at school last year, and we're making him earn that money (which he won't, we just shouldn't worry about it he says). Are we going too fan in cutting off money for things like that? It's likely to affect his current enrollment, as they won't release his records to the new school without being paid.

== > You are responsible for tool money, books, etc. But until he abides by house rules, he can sleep on the living room floor or on the family room coach. No guitar, no desk, no room (but clothes of course).

He no longer wants to contribute and just go when/where ever; do we just accept that and let him live here until he's 18? We don't think so, but we're not sure where to go with someone that just takes off, doesn't contribute, and stays within the confines of the "system." Thanks for any help Mark!

== > You are responsible for him until he turns 18. This does not mean that he has to live in your home until then, however. You may want to contract with one of these families that are willing to feed him and let him hangout in their homes. Maybe he could stay with an aunt or uncle …grandparent …family friend, etc.

But until then, withdraw all privileges (i.e., anything other than basic needs). And continue to complain to probation re: curfew violations, runaway, etc. The probation department is just like any other business. Complain long and loud enough – and they WILL take some action.

Mark Hutten, M.A.

P.S. Do not doubt yourself during these tough times. Stay the course, and remind yourself that you are allowing your son to experience some short-term, minor pain now in an effort to save him from a lot of long-term, major pain later. 

==> My Out-of-Control Teen: Help for Parents

Parent Employs "Half-Measures" in the Discipline Department

Mark, My husband and I have been taking your online course and it has been very helpful. Our son is about to turn 18 and has all but dropped out of school. We feel that our next step should be to give him a few choices: either he goes to school regularly or gets a job by the time he turns 18 or he’ll have to move into our garage. If he moves into the garage, we won’t support him in any way except to provide food and a garage couch for him to sleep on. He won’t be allowed in the house except to use the bathroom. If we actually kick him out of the house now, I’m sure he’ll just get into more trouble. I know eventually it may come that, but the garage is my last step before kicking out. Does this make good sense to you? Do you have any other recommendations? Thanks so much for your input. K.

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Hi K.,

Please don’t get upset with me, but I think the garage idea is a poor one and borders on ridiculous. Keeping him in the garage is a classic example of employing “half-measures.” If he knows he can only come in the house to use the bathroom, he will simply “need” to use the bathroom about 15 times per hour.

First of all, be sure to read the recommendation re: poor school performance in the section of the eBook entitled “Read these Emails from Exasperated Parents” [session #4 - online version].

Second, you cannot legally kick him out of the house now – so forget that one.

Third, you’re right that you need to give him a few choices. They should go like this:

He can (1) attend school regularly, or (2) drop out of school and get a GED – and work full time, or (3) continue to do nothing (or very little).

In any case, the day after his 18<sup>th</sup> birthday, he will need to either (1) begin enrolling in a college or trade school, in which case he can continue to live at home (in the house – not the garage), or (2) find full time employment and live in his own apartment or elsewhere (there’s no need for him to continue living in the “nest” if he’s making his own money).

Now K__ …if you have a sick feeling in your gut right now, then you clearly have a lot of work to do yet in the “tough love” department.

You should prepare him - now - for his launch from the nest and into adulthood. Do you really want an adult child living in your garage for the next 10 to 15 years? I didn't think so.

Mark Hutten, M.A.

==> My Out-of-Control Teen: Help for Parent

Son Comes and Goes as He Pleases

Hi Mark,

Thanks for all your help and insights. I have finished reading the ebook and finished through session three of the online course work. Our son, I___, turned 18 yesterday and will be a senior in August. I___ came home yesterday afternoon (after being gone since Friday afternoon) looking for money or birthday presents from family members (grandparents, aunts, etc).

`````Sounds like what an over-indulged kid would do.

I used the "poker face" strategy and listened to him during what amounted to a temper tantrum. After he yelled, cussed and threw things, he left the house. He called me three hours later and was extremely apologetic, telling me he loved me, missed me, etc. While he was home, I calmly told him that when he was out past curfew or did not come home at all, it caused a problem for me, because I couldn't sleep well and if he wanted to continue to live at home with the benefits we provide (use of a car, use of a phone, a roof over his head, food, clothing, paid college) he would need to come home each night by curfew. He reminded me that curfew no longer applied to him (since he's 18) and I responded that it was a condition of his living at home, not a law.

`````This was right on track – good job!

He asked for money and I gave him $5 tying the money to the chores he did Friday --cleaning his room, mowing the yard and doing laundry. I emphasized the importance of earning money to become self reliant. He came home around 6 p.m. to "see me" and said he would be home last night by 1 a.m. and would like to have a birthday dinner tonight. He did not come home last night.

I really want to do this right ("no half measures"), and would appreciate some guidance from you. A couple of questions.....1) if he comes home tonight, what is the appropriate discipline for not coming home last night?

`````Let’s stop right here! Please don’t get upset with me. I’m sure you want the truth though:

You will never win in this cat-and-mouse game. Why? Because he is no longer living in your home regularly – and he is managing financially, at some level, without you.

I think the game is over. Save you precious time and energy for other things. You may be beyond “discipline” with him.

The recommendation is not about what is an appropriate discipline – rather it is about helping him move out – permanently …helping him find a job and get his own place.

==> Help for Parents with Out-of-Control Teens

2) should I emphasize coming home at night and tackle the time he comes home after he starts coming home or should I link the two enforcing the need to be home at a certain time ie 11pm during the week?

`````I want to help you break through some possible denial on your part. He will come and go as he damn well pleases. Whenever he doesn’t like a particular rule – he’s gone again. This doesn’t mean he’s a bad kid – he just an adult now.

3) what should be next steps if he doesn't come home tonight? 4) We are going out of home for the 4th of July and would like him to come with us. Our older daughter (20) will be staying at home because she works. What strategies can we use to get him to come with us? I don't want him at home if he doesn't come with us because I'm concerned he will have parties. How do I keep him out if he wants in?

`````Change the locks. It’s not that expensive or time consuming to do.

Last month we told him he had to stay with a friend if he didn't come with us and he stayed at the friend's for a few hours, then went home and borrowed an extension ladder from a neighbor and went in through an upstairs window tripping the alarm. The police came and he showed them his driver's license and they let him in the house. 5) We live in Fishers. Is the Madison County parents program open to non-county residents?

`````Yes.

The strategies I was able to use yesterday were very effective. I___ changed his approach dramatically in just a few hours, although very short lived. I want to be sure I get the next steps right to ensure the most positive outcome possible. I really appreciate your help. After years of counseling, this approach has the potential to be much more effective long term.

`````I’ve been kind of tough on you here, but I want to give you the best possible recommendation.

Bottom line: He needs to find another place to live. Use the strategies when he comes to visit.

Shift from “what can I do to keep my son” …to “what can I do to help him be independent.”

I’m interested in your feedback on my recommendations,

Mark Hutten M.A.

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Hi Mark,

You asked for feedback on your recommendations....my first reaction was sadness. Sadness for my son and the difficult life he has ahead of him and sadness that, although I put a lot of effort into parenting, my approach did not work, and I didn't get it figured out until too late in the game.

I agree with your recommendation that I have to move from "discipline" to helping him become independent. I will work with him to either follow the household rules or find another place to live. I'm at a point where I truly am comfortable with either solution. If he is going to be disruptive at home, I would prefer he leave. The irony is that he can sense that I am sincere about forcing him to find alternative living arrangements, and he has become more compliant in response.

Thanks for your insights. The course is extremely helpful because it is so specific, outlining exactly what needs to be said and what actions need to be taken. I wish I had discovered it years ago.

Kind regards,

C.

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Hi C.,

Thank you for having an open spirit to the change process.

Your statement "I'm at a point where I truly am comfortable with either solution" ...tells me that you are nearing the point of acceptance in the grief process AND "letting go" of some emotional baggage. This is a good thing.

You are working the program -- great job. There will be a reward at the end of the tunnel in some shape, form or fashion.

Mark Hutten, M.A.

==> Help for Parents with Out-of-Control Teens

Daughter Refuses to Get Up for School in the Mornings

Dear Mark,

My husband and I have started on your course for out of control teens. It is a work in progress and we are up to week three course doing the second set of assignments. Having success in many areas.

One area we are having a lot of trouble in is, with our daughter getting up and going to school on time, She is 14 in year 9 at school in Australia. Are there any suggestions that you can make regarding this? She wakes up early enough but puts on the “go slow.” We live within walking distance of the school. We offer to drive her if she is ready by 8.30 as school starts at 8.45. A couple of times she has achieved this. Mostly she doesn't care though and walks to school arriving after 9 to 9.30 and misses the first lesson every day. For a while she had been truanting school, about 3 weeks of this 10 week term and has been late every day except the couple.

The school has her on what’s called a 'level three', which means no excursions, no sport. (She doesn't want to do sport any way). Because of the truanting and lateness to school. Her behaviour in class is good. Next step is suspension.

Her teachers say she is a very intelligent girl …we need some suggestions if you can please help. Also further down the track we need to know ways to encourage her to do her homework, which she doesn't do.

Thank you for you help regarding the above matter.

Regards

J.

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Hi J.,

School is your daughter’s job -- not yours. The more you take responsibility for her getting up and getting to school on time – the less responsibility she will take for this.

I’m guessing that her “getting to school” is more important to YOU than it is to her. Let go of playing “time keeper” …let go of playing ”taxi cab driver” …don’t “nag” her about getting off to school in a timely fashion.

Give her one (1) wake up call. The rest is up to her. If she wants to choose to be late – allow it. She will get a natural consequence through the school (actually she already has).

Now your next question may be “What if she gets suspended.” Let’s cross that bridge when we get to it. In the meantime, let her make poor choices – and let her experience the consequences associated with those poor choices. But most importantly, STOP taking responsibility for her work (i.e., complying with school policies and procedures, doing homework, etc.).

Mark Hutten, M.A.

==> JOIN Online Parent Support

Problems That Result From Over-Indulgent Parenting

Hi Sheila,

== > I’ve responded throughout your email below:

Dear Mark,

I followed your parenting programme and found it helpful, especially the poker face scenarios which worked to some degree. The problem has been that I have felt afraid to carry out some of the scenarios which you advise ie the 'take everything away and ground for 3 days' as my son is 17 and quite strong.

== > Unfortunately, not following the program’s goals will make it nearly impossible to be successful with the desired outcomes.

I think he has an addiction to the computer and he can be on it for up to 14 hours a day. As it is Summer holidays for him (but not for me) he has been on it until 4am in the morning and never goes out. This makes it very difficult for me to get a proper nights sleep because altho he is not noisy his moving around disturbs me and I get up the next morning to do a full days work feeling very tired. When I try to talk to him about it he says that I keep myself up.

When I came back from work 2 weeks ago (after a poor nights sleep) I had lots of work to do on my laptop and was very tired. He had not done the jobs he had agreed to do and there was a mound of washing up in the washing up bowl which was his. I was a bit annoyed (which he hates) but tried to get him to do the jobs there and then so that we could move on. He wanted a chinese take-away and wanted me to drive him to the top of the road to collect it. When I said no, that I had lots of work to do and I was tired but I would give him the money for him to get himself a take away when he had done his jobs he got really annoyed.

== > What did he do to earn money for Chinese take-away?!

To cut a long story short, we had a row, I was unable to maintain a poker face, I turned the computer off, which ruined the on line game he was playing, things went from bad to worse, he took my lap top from me. I tried to go to bed and said I was going to bed in a calm (but very tired) voice he turned the sound up on the computer - therefore I was unable to either work or sleep. I refused to leave his room until I got my lap top back …he started to drag me out of the room etc etc. to cut a long story short, he put a hole in the wall, pushed me over and turned his sound up again, he continued to throw things around the flat and break some of my things. - I called the cops. They took him to his father’s house for one night and that is the last I have seen of him.

== > I’m glad you called the cops. (I was beginning to wonder if you had any backbone.) You sent a very clear message to your son that violence against women is unacceptable.

It has taken 3 years of this to reach that scenario. I was at my wits end, I cannot seem to handle this on my own as he is too strong for me and NO-One has ever told him to stop. His father always says that I must be doing something to provoke him and will not talk to him and will Never agree with anything I say or back me up. He doesn't want to deal with it. Mediation services say he is crossing the boundary of 'normal teenager behaviour' and we need to talk to him. His father refuses to co-parent. In fact his father hates the cops so much and was furious I called them, that he now is forbidding me from seeing my son saying he needs protecting and he is to move in with him and threatening me with child protection and accusing me of abuse - but mark my son is 17 years old and 5ft 10, I am 5ft 4 and 54kg. I am the one with the bruises and although I have got into some tussles with my son, I have never used physical force to punish or control him!!! It is ludicrous.

== > It sounds like you have 2 teenagers to deal with – your son AND your husband. I’m sorry to hear that your husband is a jerk.

However this brings me to my final point and question…

I feel that my son will not learn a good lesson from this. He will, like his father, blame me and I have come to the point where I have been unhappy with him living with me for some time and cannot see a way forward if he came back.

== > This is where I thought we were going with this conversation – and I am glad to see that you are finally getting some insight into what YOU really need to do with this dilemma. I’ll read on…

I love my son desperately and miss him terribly, but there is some relief that he has gone, which I feel guilty about.

== > HOLD IT! Re: “feeling guilty”—

This is why you got so deep into this problem to begin with – that is, your “relationship” with your son was more important to you than it was to him; you took on WAY too much responsibility for that relationship. Of course you’ll always love him, but to AVOID setting healthy boundaries in order to protect your physical and mental health would be insane.

I feel at this moment in time I just dont want to see either him or his father for a very long time - because there will be too much anger from him that is not being addressed by him. Am I doing the right thing?

== > Absolutely! How does it feel to have an “awakening”?

I know you say never give up but I have tried everything under the sun from parenting classes to mediation and nothing works because I am the only one doing anything.

== > I don’t see your need for respite as “giving up” – rather, I see it as you finally realizing that if you don’t take care of you – nobody else will.

The other two just will not play ball... I have tried to be a good mum and things used to be wonderful but as my boy has got older there has been a lack of co-parenting and myself and his dad, have argued around him and have completely different ideas about parenting. He must be confused and there has been a lack of boundaries as we both say different things. I feel I just need to be out of the picture and hope some day that he might realise all the things I tried to do for him and the sacrifices I made.....Is there anything you could suggest that I could do or should I just leave it???

== > I’d leave it -- with one huge caveat:

When your son wants to come back to live with you because he and his father have had a meltdown, your temptation will be to welcome him with open arms. BUT, what you will be doing is setting the whole unfortunate thing in motion again.

You have described over-indulgent parenting on your part throughout this email. If you take your son back at some point – but continue to parent using an over-indulgent parenting style, your son will eat you for lunch …then spit you out.

Mark Hutten, M.A.

==> My Out-of-Control Teen: Help for Parents

The Important Distinction Between Punishment and Discipline

Mark- I am on week 3, and have found your online counseling a huge help to our family and situation. I hope that if we follow this, that we will see improvements with our 7-year-old daughter that has gotten out of control at home. She has been diagnosed ADHD and ODD. Every doc has recommended medications for her. Mainly I am sure because of school and the fact that she does have problems with socialization at school. She is aggressive with kids, but a friendly aggressive like hugs and such. She has a heart of gold, and wants to do good, but she doesn’t have the tools she needs in order to be constructive. You mention that we as parents should 'discipline' and not 'punish'. I am wondering what is the difference between discipline vs punishing? What I mean is, what is considered discipline and what is considered punishing? Thank you, J.

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Hi J.,

Discipline is: 

• "Time-outs" that are open-ended and governed by the child's readiness to gain self-control
• Acknowledging or rewarding efforts and good behavior
• Consistent, firm guidance
• Directed at the child's behavior, never the child
• Giving children positive alternatives
• Listening and modeling
• Logical consequences that are directly related to the misbehavior
• Physically and verbally non-violent
• Positive, respectful
• Re-directing and selectively "ignoring" minor misbehavior
• Reflection and verbal give-and-take communication
• Teaching children to internalize self-discipline
• Teaching empathy and healthy remorse by showing it
• Understanding individual abilities, needs, circumstances and developmental stages
• Using mistakes as learning opportunities
• When children follow rules because they are discussed and agreed upon
• When children must make restitution when their behavior negatively affects someone else

Punishment is:

 

• "Time-outs" that banish a child for a set amount of time governed by the adult
• Being told only what NOT to do
• Children are punished for hurting others, rather than shown how to make restitution
• Consequences that are unrelated and illogical to the misbehavior
• Constantly reprimanding children for minor infractions causing them to tune-out
• Controlling, shaming
• Criticizing the child, rather than the child's behavior
• Forcing children to comply with illogical rules "just because you said so"
• Inappropriate to the child’s developmental stage of life
• Individual circumstances, abilities and needs not taken into consideration
• Negative and disrespectful of the child
• Physically and verbally violent and aggressive
• Reacting to rather than responding to misbehavior
• Sarcastic
• Teaching children to be controlled by a source outside of themselves
• Teaching children to behave only when they will get caught doing otherwise
• When children follow rules because they are threatened or bribed

Discipline is when a lifelong lesson is taught, the person develops another part of their character and learns a lesson in something they can use for all kinds of situations in life. Punishment is when they just "get in trouble" - just get a consequence for an offense - but nothing was learned except maybe to not get caught or not make the person punishing mad.

Discipline is guidance. When we guide children toward positive behavior and learning, we are promoting a healthy attitude. Positive guidance encourages a child to think before he acts. Positive guidance promotes self-control. Different styles of discipline produce results that are different. Discipline requires thought, planning, and patience.

Punishment, on the other hand, is usually hitting, spanking, or any type of control behavior. Basically there are four kinds of punishment: 

• Penalizing the child with consequences that do not fit the crime: Example: "Because you told a lie, you can't have your allowance."
• Physical: Slapping, spanking, switching, paddling, using a belt or hair brush, and so on.
• With words: Shaming, ridiculing, or using cruel words.

Punishment is usually used because: 

• It vents adult frustration
• It's quick and easy
• Parents don't know other methods
• Punishment asserts adult power

Punishment does not promote self discipline. It only stops misbehavior for that moment. Punishment may fulfill a short-term goal, but it actually interferes with the accomplishment of your long-term goal of self control. 

The consequences for children include the following lessons:

 

• It is okay to hit people who are smaller than you are.
• It is right to hit those you are closest to.
• Those who love you the most are also those who hit you.
• Violence is okay when other things don't work.

Tips— 

• Address the situation; do not judge the child. This is important because diminished self-esteem leads to insecurity, even hostility.
• Be firm. Clearly and firmly state that the child does what needs to be done. Speak in a tone that lets your child know you mean what you say and you expect the child to do it. It doesn't mean yelling or threatening. Being firm works for any age child and for many situations.
• Be sure children know these limits. Be consistent.
• Build self-esteem and respect. Avoid words that reduce self-esteem.
• Guide through consequences. If a child leaves his toys outside and the toys are stolen or damaged--no toys.
• Keep discipline positive. Tell children what to do instead of what not to do.
• Keep your cool. Listen calmly to your child's explanation of the problem; talk about ways to deal with it. Come to a solution that's agreeable to you and the child--this helps the child learn to be responsible for his behavior.
• Plan ahead. Prevent misbehavior by eliminating situations that spell trouble. For example, make sure children have been fed and are rested before going to the grocery store.
• Set clear and safe limits.
• Teach by example. Be a good example. If you hit children for hitting others, they won't understand why they can't hit.
• When you discipline, explain why.

Sorry for all the bullet points. It makes it a bit impersonal, but also provides you with a digestible summary.

Thanks for the question,

Mark Hutten, M.A.

==> JOIN Online Parent Support