He just leaves early in the day and shows up after we're asleep...

T__ and I joined your website for our 16 year old quite a few months back. Let me say this after having gone through many different programs for difficult teenagers, your program is very solid. We have told our current counselors and connections about it so that other parents may use your very good resources, too.

== > Thank you for your kinds words.

Our son is to the point now where he no longer argues about items (this should be a good thing). He just says "ok" and then takes off. He said that he really doesn't need us as parents, he doesn't need to do the chores or contribute anymore, and he just leaves early in the day and shows up after we're asleep.

== > You can file runaway charges. Also, if he’s violating curfew – that’s another legal charge that will need to go to court.

We have gone through his room and removed his negative influences - computer, clothing, accessories, electronic gadgets, etc. We left positive things, like a bed, desk, guitar (as an outlet), and normal school clothing.

== > Did you include, “If you choose to be home by the designated time for a period of 3 days – then you get all your stuff back” …?

We have filed unruly and missing charges, and we're in a juvenile court diversion program. Both sides basically tell us that because he's not doing anything violent or really bad, the court is not going to do anything to him. Here's someone that knows how to ride the system (and seems to have lost respect for the system).

== > That’s true, but here’s the upshot: You are protecting yourself from some potential liability issues. For example, if something bad happened to your son – or if your son committed a harmful act to others or their property, you will have solid evidence that you tried your best to get him “off the streets.”

Part of the problem is that his friends and their parents just give food, shelter, money, etc, because he is very charming to them. He misleads them about his situation to his benefit. We asked them why they do it, and they just say that they like doing it.

== > Two points here: (1) Of course he misleads …that’s what all kids do. Don’t worry about it. (2) Nothing is as comfortable as “home.” So don’t be fooled into thinking that he is escaping uncomfortable emotions associated with his poor choices. I can see that he is doing a class “A” job of convincing you that your disciplinary techniques are having no effect.

Any advice where to go from here would be helpful. We are sticking with the program basics, and we are hoping it will kick in again.

== > I think you’ll need to kick it up a notch.

You could lock him out of the house – but he may just pound on the door and wake everybody up. Even if the cops showed up, all they would do is give him a short, meaningless lecture and tell you to let him in.

A better idea would be to ground him FROM his room. Find a way to keep the door locked (and only you have a key). Bottom line, he is – as you say – playing the system. He has a right to live in your house – but he does not have a right to have a private bedroom. A private bedroom is a privilege – a privilege that’s EARNED by following house rules.

One of questions is this - does the "no free handouts" cover school expenses and such?

== > No. Basic needs are not fair game for confiscation.

We wanted him to earn his tool money for his new vocation school, but he hasn't done (even though he says it means something to him). He says "not to worry about it" whenever we bring it up, and he's definitely not close to being ready in four days. He lost most all of his books at school last year, and we're making him earn that money (which he won't, we just shouldn't worry about it he says). Are we going too fan in cutting off money for things like that? It's likely to affect his current enrollment, as they won't release his records to the new school without being paid.

== > You are responsible for tool money, books, etc. But until he abides by house rules, he can sleep on the living room floor or on the family room coach. No guitar, no desk, no room (but clothes of course).

He no longer wants to contribute and just go when/where ever; do we just accept that and let him live here until he's 18? We don't think so, but we're not sure where to go with someone that just takes off, doesn't contribute, and stays within the confines of the "system." Thanks for any help Mark!

== > You are responsible for him until he turns 18. This does not mean that he has to live in your home until then, however. You may want to contract with one of these families that are willing to feed him and let him hangout in their homes. Maybe he could stay with an aunt or uncle …grandparent …family friend, etc.

But until then, withdraw all privileges (i.e., anything other than basic needs). And continue to complain to probation re: curfew violations, runaway, etc. The probation department is just like any other business. Complain long and loud enough – and they WILL take some action.

Mark Hutten, M.A.

P.S. Do not doubt yourself during these tough times. Stay the course, and remind yourself that you are allowing your son to experience some short-term, minor pain now in an effort to save him from a lot of long-term, major pain later. 

==> My Out-of-Control Teen: Help for Parents

Parent Employs "Half-Measures" in the Discipline Department

Mark, My husband and I have been taking your online course and it has been very helpful. Our son is about to turn 18 and has all but dropped out of school. We feel that our next step should be to give him a few choices: either he goes to school regularly or gets a job by the time he turns 18 or he’ll have to move into our garage. If he moves into the garage, we won’t support him in any way except to provide food and a garage couch for him to sleep on. He won’t be allowed in the house except to use the bathroom. If we actually kick him out of the house now, I’m sure he’ll just get into more trouble. I know eventually it may come that, but the garage is my last step before kicking out. Does this make good sense to you? Do you have any other recommendations? Thanks so much for your input. K.

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Hi K.,

Please don’t get upset with me, but I think the garage idea is a poor one and borders on ridiculous. Keeping him in the garage is a classic example of employing “half-measures.” If he knows he can only come in the house to use the bathroom, he will simply “need” to use the bathroom about 15 times per hour.

First of all, be sure to read the recommendation re: poor school performance in the section of the eBook entitled “Read these Emails from Exasperated Parents” [session #4 - online version].

Second, you cannot legally kick him out of the house now – so forget that one.

Third, you’re right that you need to give him a few choices. They should go like this:

He can (1) attend school regularly, or (2) drop out of school and get a GED – and work full time, or (3) continue to do nothing (or very little).

In any case, the day after his 18<sup>th</sup> birthday, he will need to either (1) begin enrolling in a college or trade school, in which case he can continue to live at home (in the house – not the garage), or (2) find full time employment and live in his own apartment or elsewhere (there’s no need for him to continue living in the “nest” if he’s making his own money).

Now K__ …if you have a sick feeling in your gut right now, then you clearly have a lot of work to do yet in the “tough love” department.

You should prepare him - now - for his launch from the nest and into adulthood. Do you really want an adult child living in your garage for the next 10 to 15 years? I didn't think so.

Mark Hutten, M.A.

==> My Out-of-Control Teen: Help for Parent

Son Comes and Goes as He Pleases

Hi Mark,

Thanks for all your help and insights. I have finished reading the ebook and finished through session three of the online course work. Our son, I___, turned 18 yesterday and will be a senior in August. I___ came home yesterday afternoon (after being gone since Friday afternoon) looking for money or birthday presents from family members (grandparents, aunts, etc).

`````Sounds like what an over-indulged kid would do.

I used the "poker face" strategy and listened to him during what amounted to a temper tantrum. After he yelled, cussed and threw things, he left the house. He called me three hours later and was extremely apologetic, telling me he loved me, missed me, etc. While he was home, I calmly told him that when he was out past curfew or did not come home at all, it caused a problem for me, because I couldn't sleep well and if he wanted to continue to live at home with the benefits we provide (use of a car, use of a phone, a roof over his head, food, clothing, paid college) he would need to come home each night by curfew. He reminded me that curfew no longer applied to him (since he's 18) and I responded that it was a condition of his living at home, not a law.

`````This was right on track – good job!

He asked for money and I gave him $5 tying the money to the chores he did Friday --cleaning his room, mowing the yard and doing laundry. I emphasized the importance of earning money to become self reliant. He came home around 6 p.m. to "see me" and said he would be home last night by 1 a.m. and would like to have a birthday dinner tonight. He did not come home last night.

I really want to do this right ("no half measures"), and would appreciate some guidance from you. A couple of questions.....1) if he comes home tonight, what is the appropriate discipline for not coming home last night?

`````Let’s stop right here! Please don’t get upset with me. I’m sure you want the truth though:

You will never win in this cat-and-mouse game. Why? Because he is no longer living in your home regularly – and he is managing financially, at some level, without you.

I think the game is over. Save you precious time and energy for other things. You may be beyond “discipline” with him.

The recommendation is not about what is an appropriate discipline – rather it is about helping him move out – permanently …helping him find a job and get his own place.

==> Help for Parents with Out-of-Control Teens

2) should I emphasize coming home at night and tackle the time he comes home after he starts coming home or should I link the two enforcing the need to be home at a certain time ie 11pm during the week?

`````I want to help you break through some possible denial on your part. He will come and go as he damn well pleases. Whenever he doesn’t like a particular rule – he’s gone again. This doesn’t mean he’s a bad kid – he just an adult now.

3) what should be next steps if he doesn't come home tonight? 4) We are going out of home for the 4th of July and would like him to come with us. Our older daughter (20) will be staying at home because she works. What strategies can we use to get him to come with us? I don't want him at home if he doesn't come with us because I'm concerned he will have parties. How do I keep him out if he wants in?

`````Change the locks. It’s not that expensive or time consuming to do.

Last month we told him he had to stay with a friend if he didn't come with us and he stayed at the friend's for a few hours, then went home and borrowed an extension ladder from a neighbor and went in through an upstairs window tripping the alarm. The police came and he showed them his driver's license and they let him in the house. 5) We live in Fishers. Is the Madison County parents program open to non-county residents?

`````Yes.

The strategies I was able to use yesterday were very effective. I___ changed his approach dramatically in just a few hours, although very short lived. I want to be sure I get the next steps right to ensure the most positive outcome possible. I really appreciate your help. After years of counseling, this approach has the potential to be much more effective long term.

`````I’ve been kind of tough on you here, but I want to give you the best possible recommendation.

Bottom line: He needs to find another place to live. Use the strategies when he comes to visit.

Shift from “what can I do to keep my son” …to “what can I do to help him be independent.”

I’m interested in your feedback on my recommendations,

Mark Hutten M.A.

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Hi Mark,

You asked for feedback on your recommendations....my first reaction was sadness. Sadness for my son and the difficult life he has ahead of him and sadness that, although I put a lot of effort into parenting, my approach did not work, and I didn't get it figured out until too late in the game.

I agree with your recommendation that I have to move from "discipline" to helping him become independent. I will work with him to either follow the household rules or find another place to live. I'm at a point where I truly am comfortable with either solution. If he is going to be disruptive at home, I would prefer he leave. The irony is that he can sense that I am sincere about forcing him to find alternative living arrangements, and he has become more compliant in response.

Thanks for your insights. The course is extremely helpful because it is so specific, outlining exactly what needs to be said and what actions need to be taken. I wish I had discovered it years ago.

Kind regards,

C.

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Hi C.,

Thank you for having an open spirit to the change process.

Your statement "I'm at a point where I truly am comfortable with either solution" ...tells me that you are nearing the point of acceptance in the grief process AND "letting go" of some emotional baggage. This is a good thing.

You are working the program -- great job. There will be a reward at the end of the tunnel in some shape, form or fashion.

Mark Hutten, M.A.

==> Help for Parents with Out-of-Control Teens