Let's Trouble-Shoot

Dear Mark,

I have a 13 year old adopted daughter. She is the youngest of 6 children, 2 biological and 4 adopted. We were foster parents for many years and therefore have had much experience with children, both well adjusted and troubled.

She is very bright and very athletic. She is in the 7th grade taking accelerated classes and has been on the honor role. She excels in sports also.

We noticed a difference in her a few years back and for the last 3 years her behavior at home has been on a steady decline. She has been able to keep things together outside the home but I'm not sure for how long. We had been in counseling 2 1/2 years with poor results and have recently started it again due to a suggestion from the local hospital behavioral unit, which she spent 4 days in March. This was her first hospitalization, but fear it will not be her last.

Her behaviors have escalated to property destruction and physical retaliation. She refuses to admit anything is wrong and she feels we are the problem since she does well everywhere else. If we try to talk to her she screams shut-up the entire time and if we don't or argue with her this is when she destroys things in the house and then says it our fault because we wouldn't leave her alone. Our house is a time bomb.

She has been diagnosed with ODD and I feel there is much more going on than that. A few years back she was diagnosed with ODD, depression, and attachment issues. We tried medication for the depression but she would not take it and states she will not take any meds now. We can't force her to do this, so I do not feel any amount of counseling will help if she first doesn't admit there is a problem.

I have been a member of the Online Support for a while now and know your views on sending children away, but I don't know how much longer we'll be able to tolerate this in the house without my husband or I having a heart attack or stoke with all the explosions and non-compliance.

Yes, I have read the print version and listened to 90% of the online version and have tried to implement as many of the suggestions as possible. I know there is never a quick fix, and I know with attachment issues it would be in her best interest for her to be stable in our house, but I have to consider more than just her.

I have read it would be better for her to consider a boarding school rather than a residential treatment center, but usually the student needs to fill out some of the application and have an interview, and I fear she will sabotage this. I'm also concerned we will not be able to afford this and was wondering if you have any other suggestions for financial help. I really would like to research this and not have to make a split decision that might not be the best for our daughter.

I would appreciate any help you can give on this matter. Any questions you can email or call me.

Thanks in advance,

Frustrated

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Hi Frustrated,

Well first, it’s clear to me that you need some outside assistance. If you haven’t done so already, and if you live in the U.S., go to your local Juvenile Probation Department and file an incorrigibility complaint. Then your daughter will be assigned a Probation Officer who can help you with services.

Second, allow me to share with you what I see in those cases where parents seem to have difficulty getting 'off the ground' with these parenting techniques:

Some parents have always been indecisive about what course of action to try with their child. They jump from one parenting technique to the other without giving any one technique enough time to be effective, or they try a new parenting technique once and then give up in frustration because it didn't work fast enough.

Some parents will say, "We've tried everything and nothing works with this kid." On rare occasion, this may be true. What I usually see is parents drifting from one parenting tool to another without refining their parenting tools.

Here are several ways to refine:

---Realize the same discipline may not work for all children, because of the unique features of different children

---Try to blend a combination of several parenting tools to create a more effective discipline

---Don't believe it when your children seem unaffected by discipline. Children often pretend discipline doesn't bother them. Continue to be persistent with your planned discipline, and consider yourself successful by keeping your parenting plan in place. When children pretend a discipline doesn't bother them, parents often give up on a discipline, which reinforces the child's disobedience. Remember, you can only control your actions, not your children's reactions.

Let's trouble-shoot.

Below is a summary of all the assignments I gave you in My Out-of-Control Teen eBook. If parents do not implement ALL of these assignments, it will be the "kiss of failure." For example, the transmission in your car has hundreds of parts, but if just one little tiny part is not working -- the whole transmission does not work. The same is true with this "parent program." Omit just one strategy, and the whole plan falls through the floor.

1. Are you asking your daughter at least one question each day that cannot be answered with a simple "yes" or a "no" to demonstrate that you are interested in what is going on in her life? (page 20 of the printable version of eBook)

2. Are you saying to your child "I love you" everyday and expecting nothing in return? (page 20)

3. Are you eating dinner together at least one evening each week -- either at home or out? (page 20)

4. Do you use "The Art of Saying Yes" whenever your answer is yes? (page 25)

5. Do you use "The The Art of Saying - and Sticking With - No" whenever your answer is no? (page 25)

6. Do you catch your daughter in the act of doing something right at least once each day? (page 25)

7. Do you use the "When You Want Something From Your Kid" approach as needed? (page 31)

8. Do you give your child at least one chore each day? (page 31)

9. Do you find something fun to do with your teen each week? (page 54)

10. Do you use the "I noticed ...I felt ...Listen" approach when something unexpected pops-up? (bottom of page 50)

11. When you are undecided about what to say or do in any particular situation, are you asking yourself the following question: "Will this promote the development of self-reliance in my child, or will this inhibit the development of self-reliance?" If it is supportive of self-reliance, say it or do it. If it is not supportive, don't!

12. Is your daughter EARNING ALL of her stuff and freedom? (see "Self-Reliance Cycle" - page 19)

If you answered "no" to any of the above, you are missing some important pieces to the puzzle. Most parents DO miss a few pieces initially -- you can't be expected to remember everything! But don't get frustrated and give up. We must be willing to hang in there for the long haul.

I'm talking about refinement here. Refinement is a necessary tool to use in order to truly be successful with these parenting strategies.

HERE IS THE GOOD NEWS: Parents who refine are, on average, 95% - 100% successful at getting the parent-child difficulties reduced in intensity and severity (i.e., the problems are easily managed).

The same can be true in your case. Keep up the good work. Please continue to refine by emailing me again. Refinement is a process, not a one-time event.

www.MyOutOfControlTeen.com

We have been having a fair amount of difficulty...

Hi T.,

==> I’ve responded to your comments below.

I have just finished reading and listening to the info on this website. I purchased for myself and my ex-husband for help with our 16 year old daughter. She is an excellent student, all county athlete, does not skip school or some of the other things you describe as behavior that parents are trying to change.

We have been having a fair amount of difficulty with her not telling the truth in order to do things she doesn't want to tell us about.

==> Here’s suggestions re: lying: www.myoutofcontrolteen.com/lying

And we've had several incidents of drinking an excessive amount of alcohol.

==> Here’s suggestions re: teen alcohol drinking: www.myoutofcontrolteen.com/q-a

The most recent incident occurred 1 week ago. She left to "go to her boyfriends house", she checked in as usual around 10pm, asked if she could stay to watch a movie they were just going to start. I allowed her to stay as long as she was home before midnight (her curfew).

==> Hold up. What did she do to earn this privilege?

At 12:15 she still wasn't home...no phone call. I started trying to call her cell phone, boyfriends cell phone, friends cell phone. Finally got one of her friends who said she had just left and should be home any minute. So ...broke curfew, lied about where she was, and although not visually drunk, I could smell alcohol. She admitted to having a vodka drink and having driven her boyfriend home and then herself.

I am guilty of many of the bad parenting techniques that you mentioned. I am particularly guilty in over-indulgence

==> This isn’t about guilt or blaming. Guilt is a potential obstacle to success, because when we as parents feel guilty about or parenting, we tend to try to compensate by becoming too lenient again as a way to alleviate the guilt (i.e., over-indulgence).

...I see now how I need to change that. I give and trust waaaay too much. I have done a pretty good job in trying to "discipline" rather than "punish" and her dad and I (we have been divorced for 10 years) disagree on how to deal with her poor decisions. He wants to come down hard on her and try to control her activities and basically try to "change" her. I fight against that because I know it won't work and could cause more damage than good.

==> You’re right!

 

==> Effective Disciplinary Techniques for Defiant Teens and Preteens 

My suggested consequences for the latest incident was ...loss of the car (she has had exclusive use of a family car) for 1 month.

==> Too long.

When I told her father about the incident he wanted to go further and add being grounded from friends and boyfriend for the entire month as well ...along with not being able to go to the prom which is even outside of the one month. I strongly disagree with this.

==> So do I.

I was willing to compromise and add the month of being grounded to, as he puts it "make it painful" but wanted to keep the prom out.

==> A month is too long (as you read in the ebook, right?)

He has insisted on not allowing her to go to the prom and because he will have our daughters that weekend, he can control whether she goes or not.

His wife has been diagnosed with borderline personality disorder and we have been going through some very difficult times between households. The girls were unable to spend any time in their home a few months ago because of the angry and unpredictable environment there. Things have improved somewhat and they are back on a regular schedule. Part of the problems between the households is that the 16 year old seems to get into more trouble (or at least I catch her more often) when she is in my custody. They feel that because I allow her too much freedom, she is making bad choices. They want to take the freedom away so she can't make the bad choices. I completely disagree.

Anyway ...you can kind of see the pattern here. I am pursuing action to get full legal custody of the 16 year old. I believe that this conflict between households and lack of consistency is extremely bad for her and it puts all of us in constant turmoil. We share joint custody right now, which does not give either one of us final decision making authority so we are constantly arguing. Even if I would lose a custody battle and he would get "final say", I believe that would be better for her than this stressful situation that we all live in. In an attempt to avoid the legal battle, I suggested two days ago that her dad and I seek counseling to help us come to common ground in getting our daughters through these challenging teen years. 

 

We have a 13 year old as well. Even if we could use a counselor as a mediator to break dead locks when we have them. He's "considering" the idea. I have been searching and reading as much as I can on the subject and am more convinced than ever that his method of "control" and punishment are not going to work for our girls ...especially the 16 year old who's personality is much stronger and free willed than the 13 year old.

That’s how I came upon your website. I'm going to share this site with my ex later today and hope that it will be helpful to us. Do you have any other suggestions for me? I've expressed my concern to their dad and have told him my legal plans. He's digging his heals in and refuses to work with me. He says I'm foolish to pursue this "over the prom".

==> Are you in a power struggle with him over this prom thing? Kinda sounds like it.

I see it as a much bigger issue and one that is going to be around for many years. Any suggestions you have for me would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for the help you've already provided through this sight.

==> A weaker plan supported by you AND your ex will be much better than a stronger plan supported by only you.

==> Effective Disciplinary Techniques for Defiant Teens and Preteens

Don't "Half-Ass" The Program

Hi,

Here are some questions:


1. How long do most teens need before you see some improvement?
2. How long do most use this silent treatment for?
3. I have been looking at these brat camp/wilderness camps. What are your thoughts on those?

Thanks

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Re: How long do most teens need before you see some improvement?

It all depends on how much you are applying the principles outlined in the ebook. Parents who do not “half-ass” the program usually begin to experience success within the first week. What I see most often, however, is the parent skims through the printable version of the ebook and then tries to wing it. This is the kiss of failure. A better approach is to read the printable version followed by reading the online version and listening to ALL the audio files.

Re: How long do most use this silent treatment for?
As long as he has resentment flu.

Re: I have been looking at these brat camp/wilderness camps. What are your thoughts on those?

I don’t recommend either. However, boarding schools might be a consideration. 

He used a condom...

Hello Mark,

I have a question concerning my son, age 15. He is still living with his Dad and pretty much doing what he pleases, at least the way I see it. Whenever I do see him, he gets angry when I ask him any questions about anything, school, activities, etc. He claims that he has talked with his father so everything is fine. My question is do I have any parenting rights now that he is there?

My son did call me a couple of weeks ago because he and his girlfriend had sex and they were afraid she may be pregnant, even though he used a condom. I talked to him about this and promised I wouldn't tell his father and kept that promise. His Dad and her Mom allow him to spend the night at her house, which is totally out of the question at my house. I know that because of my rules, he will probably never come back here but the bottom line is, do I still have any rights?

I'm just sick over this whole thing and am very worried about his safety among other things.

Thanks Mark,

T.

_______________

The Supreme Court has ruled that parents have a fundamental right to control the upbringing and education of their children. Parents have a constitutional right to direct and control the upbringing of their children, and laws or governmental actions that unreasonably infringe the rights of parents to raise and educate their children according to their own values are constitutionally suspect.

Having parental responsibility means that you have the right to make important decisions about your child's life in areas like medical treatment and education. But it also means that you have responsibilities. You have a duty to care for and protect the child.

You should re-think your choice to keep your son’s sexual activity a secret from his father (unless you and he want to share in the responsibility of raising a grandchild).

Plus, I can’t believe that his Dad and her Mom allow him to spend the night at her house – that’s incredibly negligent parenting. Unfortunately, I don’t think you’ll be able to control this situation. So this falls into the category of “letting go.”

www.MyOutOfControlTeen.com

She is going to make her life very hard by being a teen parent?

I didn't see anything in your program about teen parents. My 15-year-old daughter was pregnant and lost her baby, and she is determined to get pregnant again. How can I help her see that she is going to make her life very hard by being a teen parent?

I had my first child at 19, so I remember how hard it was, and I have been a single mom for 8 years now, so I know how hard single parenting is too.

My fear is that I will end up raising her baby. I'm 45 now and I've had a child at home since I was 19, and I don't want to spend the next 20 years raising another one.

Her stepsister had her first at 15 and her second at 19. Her cousin had two before she was 17. I guess they think this is normal or something. Being a single parent is so hard financially and emotionally and the kids all think it's just a big joke.

I was really encouraged by your program, by the way. I noticed a couple of things in it that I am already doing, and that made me feel a little better about my parenting skills.


________________


Hi D.,

I often get emails from teen parents. I've taken the liberty of sharing a few with you below (without their names of course).

You may want to ask your daughter if she would have any interest in reading these:

==> I got pregnant a month before my 17th birthday. My son's father and I got married five months ago and we're already separated. I live in an emergency shelter for teen moms. I raise my son alone. My son will be a year old next week. In his whole life, his father has only taken care of him by himself one time. He does not pay me child support...I have only been out once without him. The rest of the time he goes everywhere with me. I only get four hours of sleep at night. I have no money because I quit work to go back to school, and I'm not on public aid at the moment. I miss my friends. I don't see them anymore because they have their own lives. All I do is sit at home...I love my son more than anything in the world, but it would have been a lot better if this had happened when I was like 27 instead of 17.

==> At age sixteen, I became pregnant. Before my pregnancy, I was a cheerleader and involved with many school clubs. I had many friends and was enjoying my teenage years. I now ask myself, "What happened to me? Where did I go wrong?" Why was I now standing in line at the welfare office waiting for food stamps? Maybe because I was involved with a guy who was three years older than myself. My parents had forbid me to stay in the abusive relationship. My answer to stay with this guy was to become pregnant. I will never forget the tears that my mother shed when my step-father told her the news. That night, I left my home, my teenage years, and never went back...[A while later,] I finally reached the lowest point in my life. There I was lying in a bed at a shelter for battered women. In the past, I would always leave the relationship [with the baby's father], but always return. That same night, I prayed for the strength and courage to get myself back on my feet. That was also the night that I left him and never went back. Even though my life seems to be going well now, there are emotional scars that I will carry with me each and every day of my life. There is not a day that goes by that I do not think about my past mistakes. This letter is not in any way intended to prove how teen mothers can succeed, but rather to prove how one mistake can change the rest of your life! Enjoy your teen years! I never went to my prom; I never got to cheer at homecoming; I never went on my senior cruise; I never went off to college. These things I will never have the opportunity to do again, but you will. Please, think twice before change the rest of your life!

==> Hi. ... I am an 18-year-old mother of a one and half year old son from Indiana.... I come from a small town where everyone knows everyone. I was very involved in high school with Cheerleading, national honors society, church, sadd, golf, save and many other groups. I was your average American teenage girl. I would say I came off to be a very confidant young lady. When I started my freshman year i got a boyfriend who was a senior. First mistake. After 2 months of dating we started having sex. We used protection when we had it but other times just didn't worry about it. I don't know what I was thinking. Getting pregnant never crossed my mind because you know it can't happen to me. But it did. Since then i got my GED and started college two years early and am doing very well. One thing that really bothers me is how my son's father has paid one month of child support and has only had one court date and no jail time. Not to mention he will come and visit him once a week for about a month then stop and wait about 9 months and start again and then just stop. no phone calls to see how he is doing or if he is even okay. I just think it is crazy how these guys can get off the hook. If i didn't take care of my son the way i do, i would be put in jail immediately and he would be put in foster care. It's not fair and our court system does nothing about it. Well i just wanted to write in my story. Right now I am becoming an advocate to teenagers about sex. I can speak from my own experience and help them. I personally think it’s hard to listen to someone who has not been through the struggles they try to warn you about.


www.MyOutOfControlTeen.com

Whose Problem Is It?

Hi Mark,

A million thanks!!! I had a thought/question. I know that I asked about R___'s responsibility for owning his acne regimen. Think your counsel was to leave it up to him 100% ...the work and the obvious natural consequences of not complying. Now here is a case where he DOES have a vested interest in the outcome and to date has done NOTHING.

A thought?

I think he is ADD and very easily discouraged. To date the various acne regimens have either not worked or temporarily made things worse …so my fear is that he has just given up. I KNOW this plays a BIG role in his self-esteem and mood as there is a DIRECT and understandable correlation between when this flares up and his poor attitude. Given all of this what would you think of this?

Create a chart for HIM and leave it with HIM in his room. The steps (there are a few?!) and a place for him to record observations and goals. That way he can say ...ok ...I did all of this and it got worse for 2 weeks ...but I did not expect to see improvement until week 4 ...so I have to stay the course and then re-evaluate? Then we would tell him that he needs to have this filled-in before he sees the doctor again?

I have an appt scheduled that I will cancel ...as it is so wasteful to go and have him tell them he did nothing or he lies and says he did? But I hate to see him in so much emotional pain needlessly?! So this way he can EARN the next doc visit and hopefully ultimately success?

Let me know if I am starting to get this?

Thanks SO much!!!

______________

You are definitely “starting to get this” (i.e., you’re thinking like I want you to think). But I still believe you’re taking on too much responsibility for HIS acne. If you want to throw this acne problem into the “chores” category, then I like your ideas. But I’m not sure that this is a ‘chore’ in the fullest sense of the term (we got some gray area here).

You said “he DOES have a vested interest in the outcome.” -- I’m not sure about this.

If I had a toothache and wanted to get rid of the pain, I don’t think I would just hope for it to go away. I’d go to the dentist, take the antibiotic he prescribed to get the abscessed tooth (i.e., infection) under control, then I would go back to have the tooth extracted. It’s my problem, my pain – and my solution.

Also, you said “this [acne problem] plays a BIG role in his self-esteem and mood.”

This sounds a bit too much like trying to find an excuse for his disrespect/poor choices (assuming some of that is going on). Does it [acne] really affect his self-esteem? Of course. But low self-esteem is no justification for any behavior problems he may be exhibiting.

I’d give your idea about the charts a try. If it is just another failed attempt (i.e., traditional parenting strategy) at addressing HIS problem, then “let go” of it (like we talked about in the last email).

Mark

www.MyOutOfControlTeen.com

I made a new online friend...

Thanks Mark,

And I want to thank you for taking the time to talk with me last week.
It's been a rough week in the sense that my son is not the happiest camper, but I truly felt empowered, especially after talking with you.

I think we've made some headway and I think he's realizing that he's becoming an adult and has a responsibility to me and our household.

Oh and by the way, I made a new online friend later that day on your site. I chatted with a parent of a soon to be 18 year old, her name is Vicki and she's in Arizona. She and I have been chatting since that day and she's helped me out with a few suggestions on how to cope.

For you and her, I'll forever be grateful to have you both in my life during this trying time.

Thanks again and I'll be in touch!

~R.

Parent of a now 17-year-old young man

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