Last week I signed up to get your ebook and instructional videos. I have a question. My out of control teen has a set of grandparents and a family that she has convinced I am completely abusive to her. I have been turned into the authorities four times now from false allegations and have a meeting for a 'home visit' tomorrow with the latest investigation case worker. My daughter wants to go live with the grandparents and will do whatever it takes to get removed from my care.
My concern is a co-worker I know has a similar situation. Her son turned his mom in making abuse allegations. They didn't 'stick' so the second time he turned her in for alleged abuse he made marks on his body and called saying his mom was abusing him. It stuck that time and his mom, who wouldn't hurt a flea, is now on probation for 17 months for the abuse allegations.
When do I throw in the towel? I am very worried this is going to go the same way for me.......not if but when.
Thanks,
B.
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Hi B.,
This is all too common (i.e., the kid has learned that she can duck out off receiving consequences for poor choices by alleging abuse).
In short, I suggest letting your daughter try this new living arrangement with the g-parents (if they are amenable to it) – but – let her know that, in the case she burns a bridge with them and wants to come back to live with you, she will have to agree to abide by a behavior contract (that you draft-up ahead of time).
If / when the g-parents arrive at THEIR wits-end and ask you to take your daughter back, do so only under the understanding that they are not to allow your daughter to run back and forth from one home to the other depending on her mood / attitude at the time. GOT IT!
Mark, We are doing the consequence thing (for car use, computer, phone, being able to go out etc.) and he has not had to be grounded from everything in quite a while. What I would like are some suggestions for when he gets mad (while not on any consequence), and does not like the direction of the conversation/limits he has to adhere to and starts to drop the "f" bomb either in conversation or directed at me.
====> The house rule should be "no using the f___ word." Then if he uses the f___ word at any time, just treat it like you would any other rule violation. See "When You Want Something From Your Kid" {Anger Management Chapter - Online Version of the eBook}.
This behaviour is not related to his lap top but I have started to confiscate it for 24hrs at a time. If he can go without cursing for 24hrs he has earned it back, if not the 24hrs starts over.
===> Good. This is mostly on track.
It has gotten to the point where we need to deal with it--the curfew is not much of an issue (may be 10 minutes late but the next time out he has to be home earlier), phone use is acceptable as it must be turned off at 11:00pm on school nights and he does (or loses it for 24hrs), and he gives up the car keys at night and uses the car appropriately (going to/from anywhere only with our approval) or loses it for 24hrs or more. He has not gotten violent in over a month. He continues to push, push, push with the limits, however and we do try to stay strong and unemotional. We are now ready to deal with the smaller issues but need a consequence that is meaningful (him wanting to change behavior) yet connected to the problem. Any ideas?
===> If you want to get real creative, rather than taking the laptop away (which is somewhat unrelated to cussing), you can try the following:
Give him money for chores (e.g., $15.00 a week; to be paid at the end of the week), then charge him a fee for each time he uses the f___ word.
For example, he knows he will be getting $15.00 on Saturday for the chores he has done throughout the week. In that week's time, he says F___ three times. A fee of $1.00 is assigned each time he uses the F___ word. So his total pay after deductions for that week is $12.00.
If he loses all 15 bucks - that's fine. If he uses the F___ word 16 times in a week, he is still only charged $15.00. Unlike the consequence of having computer privileges taken away, once he loses a dollar, that dollar is gone forever.
Fully expect for him to 'burn up' all 15 bucks for a couple of weeks until he gets a grip on how this system works. Allow him to make the choice to cuss, then simply charge the $1.00 fee each time (with your poker face).
Also, what "chore" every day is acceptable? Can it be something really small like to putting clothes in the hamper instead of thrown on the floor, putting his clean clothes away, or should it be something more? I am OK with the smaller stuff for now.
===> Yes! The simpler - the better.
Yes, I strive to tell him something positive everyday and "I love you. His PO feels we (family) are all making progress but when you're living in it everyday it sure may not feel like it.
Thanks again Mark!
===> You're welcome. I'm glad you're on to the smaller stuff.
Hi Mark, I am writing today because we seem to be going backwards and not forwards with the grounding effectiveness. Since the beginning of April we have been implementing groundings and I would have thought by now that they would be having some effect. Meaning that the teenager would be getting the message. Let me help you understand what is happening. The groundings have been around disrespect, spearing, defiance, annoying (big time!) and attitude!!!
==> “Disrespect, defiance, annoying and attitude” are all very vague terms that could mean anything.
He is an only child. We start with a 1-day grounding say for showing disrespect.
==> If I were to video tape him being disrespectful, what would I see? Is he using a particular cuss word? Is he throwing something across the room?
That grounding turns into a 3 day grounding within a few minutes because this child will not close his mouth, will not stop what he is doing and becomes irate and extremely angry to the point that he wants to hurt us or our things!
==> O.K. You are probably going to be a bit irritated with me now – but again, these are all very vague descriptions of behavior (i.e., “…will not close his mouth …will not stop doing what he is doing”). I’m guessing that he probably has NO clear idea of exactly what he needs to do differently giving your loose description of the behavior.
That grounding is then re-started at least 3 more times over the next couple of days because this child just doesn't get it! The light is not coming on! During the groundings the teenager is always bordering on having the grounding constantly restarted. And once he comes off the grounding there is usually only a couple of days before he is grounded again. He has had 4 groundings in the space of 6 weeks. - Each of them lasting about 5 days each. Not only that but the groundings do not seem to be helping him to see that it is his actions that is causing him to be grounded and in fact sometimes the groundings have not effect at all! (A very strong willed child).
Can you please help me understanding how much rope we are to give before we restart a grounding. For example - he shows disrespect - we ground him etc. Do we re-start the grounding the minute he shows disrespect again. This child will go up to the boundary and indeed put his foot over it to see what we will do!! Do we need to come down really hard each time and take no crap for him at all? At first with a one day grounding - we took electronics off him. That had no effect. So the next time when the 1-day went to a 3 day grounding all his indoor and outdoor toys and playing with any friends is taken off him. We have told him that the next time he is grounded everything will be removed! He still doesn't seem to get it. Please help me, my husband and I are going mad! Thanks for your time.
==> Two things seem to be going on here:
1. I think you are trying to fight multiple battles at once. In other words, he gets a one-day grounding for behavior A …then he introduces a new problem by exhibiting behavior B – now he’s receives a 3-day grounding … then sometime during the 3-day grounding he exhibits behavior C – now he’s grounded for another 3 days.
You only restart the 3-day-discipline if the original crime is re-committed. For example, let’s say he gets angry and declares, “I’m going to kill you – I hate you” (this is behavior A and should be the only focus of the 3-day grounding).
When parents issue a 3-day-discipline, it is very common for kids to introduce additional behavioral problems (temper tantrums, threats, etc.) as a way to (a) get the parent side-tracked from the original consequence and (b) get the focus off of them and onto the parent's anger.
If the parent falls for this, she ends up issuing additional consequences on top of existing consequences, restrictions against the kid begin to pile up, and before long, the kid is grounded for 3 months with no privileges -- and both the parent and the kid have forgotten what the original problem was.
Don't let this happen to you. Do not let your son get you distracted from the original problem and the associated consequence for that problem. Here's how you do this:
If your son commits another "crime" (figuratively speaking) during a 3-day-discipline, put this new crime in the "Deal-With-It-Later" file. You literally write the problem down on a piece of paper (e.g., 'son called me a bitch and broke a plate') and put this note-to-yourself somewhere where you can find it after the original 3-day-discipline is completed.
After the original 3-day-discipline is completed, you then confront your son regarding the second problem he introduced by saying, "Just for your information, in the future, if you choose to __________ (in this case, "call me a bitch and break my dishes"), then you'll choose the consequence which is __________ (here you just follow the strategy "When You Want Something From Your Kid" in the Anger Management Chapter of the Online Version of the eBook).
So, does your son get "off the hook" for calling you a name and breaking a plate? In a way, yes -- but only for the time being. He will have to answer to you if the name-calling and plate-breaking occur again in the future.
Pick your battles carefully - but perhaps more importantly, pick them one-at-a-time. Do not try to fight 14 battles at once. You'll just blow a blood vessel in your brain, and your kid will be successful at getting you to chase your tail.
Use your "Deal-With-It-Later" file frequently. You'll save yourself a lot of time and energy that would otherwise be spent in chronic power struggles.
2. Your description of behavior is too vague. You need to describe to him in great detail exactly what he did that caused him to receive a consequence. Do not use phrases like “you were being disrespectful …you had an attitude …you don’t get it”. Also, describe exactly what he has to do to complete the 3-day-discipline (e.g., “you’ll be ungrounded in 3 days if you do not say I hate you, I’m going to kill you"). Then if he goes 3 days without saying this, he’s ungrounded.
"I've been following your program for a couple months, seeing steady improvement. But here are my problems we can't seem to get by ...my husband and I both work full time and there is about 3-4 hrs of time our 15 yo son is by himself, so if a grounding punishment is needed, how do we enforce it? Also should we punish for bad behavior at school if he gets monitored through the truancy system?"
Re: How to enforce grounding when both parents are at work.
One option is tell your son that you will be placing random phone calls to the home via the landline (if you don't have a landline -- get one!). If he does not pick up the phone when you do your check-in, then he chooses to be grounded for a longer period of time when you are home to monitor the grounding.
With this method, there must be a zero-tolerance for him not answering the phone. For example, you call …he does not answer. The next time you call, he answers and says he was in the bathroom when you called earlier. Too bad. He just picked a stiffer consequence.
Another option is to suspend the grounding until a time in which you are home. For example, on a Wednesday he is told that he is grounded for one evening with no cell phone or computer privileges. You suspend the consequence until the weekend. So instead of being grounded on a Wednesday, you ground him on Saturday.
When he is grounded for more than two days, you may have to issue a split-sentence. For example, let’s say you are only available on the weekends to make sure he follows through with the grounding – and he was issued a 3-day discipline. In this case, he can do two days one weekend and the other day the following weekend.
Re: ...monitored through the truancy system?
No. He would be already receiving a natural consequence (i.e., truancy system monitoring).
== > I’ve responded in various spots throughout your email below:
Mark,
Recently I became the recipient of a $720 phone bill, courtesy of my 15 year old daughter, A___. After confronting A___ about her phone usage I asked her to give me her phone. She refused and a short while later left the house, presumably to gather her wits. A short while later my wife noticed my car was missing. My daughter had taken my car! My daughter does not have a driver's permit or insurance. A short time later my daughter called us from her friend's house, about 5 miles away. She was safe, and so was the car. In the meantime we had called the police. We knew she had to face consequences for her actions. The police officer explained that we had several choices on how to proceed with a juvenile (after bringing her home):
1. Do nothing (leaving the consequences up to us as parents)
2. Write her tickets for Driving Without a License, Driving without Insurance, Car Theft, and Breech of Trust. I would have to pay those tickets.
3. Write her tickets and set a court date in the Family Court. I would pay for the tickets and court costs.
4. Declare her an Incorrigible Child and give up our rights as parents.
5. Have the officers talk to A___ and then leave the consequences up to us as parents.
== > First of all, you don’t lose your rights as parents if your daughter if found to be incorrigible (not in the U.S. anyway).
Second, if this is the first time your daughter has gone off the deep end like this, then you made a good decision by picking number 5. But – and this is a huge but – if this is not her first time, you made a huge mistake.
We chose option 5. The officers did a great job scaring A___: If they had to come out to the house again (this was the third time) she would be taken to jail. They wanted to take her then, but we convinced the officers to leave her with us. (a couple white lies, but the talk was brilliant!) A___ apologized profusely about two hours later.
== > I respectfully disagree that the officers did a great job scaring A___ – rather, A___ did a great job of convincing you (manipulating you) that she is sorry / remorseful.
Fear-based motivation has no longevity. As soon as she feels that the heat is off, you may find yourself in this same – or similar – situation.
What are appropriate consequences for such criminal behavior? I've placed controls on A___'s phone so she can only text or call voicemail or family members. She is grounded, but can have friends over and go outside as long as they stay in or close to home. A___ must perform special chores around the house to pay for her part of the phone bill. I don't want A___ to get her driver's permit until she's 17 (she is obviously immature and untrustworthy).
== > This all sounded good until now. Remember, our #1 goal as parents is to “foster the development of self-reliance.” The question should be, “Will withholding her driver’s permit foster self-reliance – or dependency.” Clearly it will foster dependency (i.e., somebody will have to drive her to the places she needs to go).
My wife wants to lift the grounding and phone restrictions after one week. From the MOOCT book you said that punishments longer than a week are ineffective.
Is this a case where more severe consequences are appropriate? What do you recommend?
== > When a child is allowed to stay in the house – or out …when she’s allowed to continue to have cell phone privileges even though it was the original source of the whole episode …when she is allowed to have friends over …then the “grounding” is not really a grounding, rather it’s something reminiscent of a grounding.
Here’s my recommendation:
First, give your daughter a warning that if she chooses to steal your car again, she will choose to face legal consequences in addition to being grounded for 7 days – in the house – no cell phone (or any other privilege for that matter) – no friends.
Mark, I have recently found and joined your OPS. I have a 15 yo son that came to live with me when he was 12. His mother is best described as an overindulgent parent. He was also exposed to her habit of distorting the truth to suit her needs. He learned and has told me that no matter whether wrong or right she always gets what she wants. She will go months without calling him. My son will not open up to anyone. He seems to have the traits of a "scapegoat and a lost child". He has approximately 15 of the 20 traits from your Indulgent parent quiz. I am more in line with an authoritarian parent. Needless to say i have made a multitude of mistakes as a parent. I am also a 13-year police officer with a 50/50 mix between patrol and specialized units.
That said the current problem is that my wife (his step mom) and my son have a very contentious and volatile relationship. Saturday while I was asleep my wife got onto my son about something and he announced that he was leaving. She grabbed his bag and told him that he was not taking the items that he had packed. He shoved her and either kicked her in the leg or stepped on her leg.
My wife woke me telling me that he was leaving and that I needed to get a hold of him and that he had pushed her. My immediate response was to try to calm everyone and get the story of what had happened. Instead it was a lot of "I hate her, all she does is ...".and "I'm tired of his crap all he does is cause problems...."
Things got calmed down and I was able to get some of the frustrations lined out. I spent the day trying to come up with a discipline for him later that evening my wife suggested grounding him to his room w/out tv, ipod, cell, etc..
Now she is upset and resents me because she feels that I did not stand up for her by either pushing/attacking him or whipping him. The more she thinks about it and talks to relatives and friends, the more frustrated she gets. I feel that the physical discipline would give him the "reward" that he seeks. I have no problem with corporal punishment, however he seems to genuinely appreciate it. My wife has commented numerous times over the years that she doesn't understand how he acts perfectly normal, even happy after getting a whipping. But now she is upset that I didn’t mete out some type of corporal punishment to him even after the fact, yesterday or today. I feel almost helpless, nothing I have tried has worked and I can't convince my wife that we are doing the right thing now. I know there is a small window to get him turned around and I am afraid of losing another chance.
I didn't find your site until Sunday and it seems to fit so well. I know this is a lot at one time, but any advice is appreciated.
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Hi D.,
Re: corporal punishment.
I don’t think that spanking is child abuse. When done in the heat of anger though, spanking often does lead to physical abuse. While spanking may be appropriate for some younger kids, physical punishment is not appropriate for teens. Rather than having it escalate into abuse (or, in some cases, result in retaliation by the teen), I discourage spanking as a method of discipline.
Instead, I offer parents several alternatives to spanking. These alternatives are not as quick and easy to apply as a good whipping, but bear in mind that corporal punishment is just another traditional parenting strategy that has no long-lasting benefit.
Re: tension between you and your son’s stepmother.
I’ll address this to your wife in hopes that she will read it without being offended:
A StepMom often feels hurt, angry, and worried about her relationship with the children and her relationship with her husband. She has come to care for, even love, her husband's children very much and wants to do a good job as a parent. Naturally, she believes she is right in her ideas and wants to shape up the other adults/caretakers (i.e., her husband and her stepchild’s biological mother).
Even if that were possible (it isn't), the other adults also believe they are doing right. The only person StepMom can change in this situation is herself. She needs to begin to look at the situation differently, and change her part in the cycle of hurt that is going on.
Assuming that we're talking about differences, not abuse or neglect, all of the adults in this situation need to start giving each other a break. Nobody has a corner on what is right -- only on what they each prefer.
StepMom can take a great deal of stress off of herself by accepting the reality that the children will always have a deeper, stronger feeling for their biological mother (no matter how she parented). She doesn't have to compete with that or correct what she sees as
Bio-Mom's deficiencies. In fact, she would do much better to approach the children as young friends, not as responsibilities or as reflections of her beliefs about child-rearing. She can have far more influence on the behavior of the children by simply being an additional adult friend.
StepMom can also withdraw from the struggle with her husband. He wasn't able to work out his differences with his former wife while they were married. He isn't going to be any more successful at it just because StepMom wants backing.
By getting out of struggles with the adults, StepMom also gets herself out of struggles with the kids. She certainly has the right to ask for basic politeness and respect for herself and her possessions. But it's a losing battle to ask them to behave differently or to follow her house rules. They won’t.
It's often fascinating what happens when one part of a complex system makes genuine change. Often enough, there is a quiet but significant domino effect over time. That's why I advise stepmothers in this kind of situation to understand what they can and can't change and to make peace with it.
If she angrily withdraws or punishes her husband and the kids by playing the martyr, she hasn't shifted her role in the fight, only her tactics. If, instead, she can really let go and find a place for herself as another adult role model in the family, she may be surprised to find that she gets far more of what she was fighting so hard (and so ineffectively) to get – respect and consideration.
Hi Mark, First, thanks for your great ebook and website. I realise I had been very unclear as a parent and started on the assignments with a sense of relief. Things did get worse before they got better but I am very pleased that I did not lose my cool or get drawn into arguments and we started to settle down and my 11 year old son S__ said that he felt so much better because he knew where he stood.
But our new-found calm was shattered by something that happened at school [before schools closed due to the virus]. A boy accused my son of something that he did not do and said that he was going to fight him. S__ alerted a member of staff but they didn't act in time and S__ got beaten up. The school was apologetic and admits that they let S__ down by not acting quickly enough. They have offered various strategies to try and settle him back into school this coming school year, but he is hysterical at the thought of going back.
As I want S__ to be happy and to feel he has some choice in the matter, this is what I am doing. (we live in the UK, by the way.) The Education Welfare Officer has been to see us and has suggested two other schools that might be better for S__, so we are going to see these schools. She has also put me in touch with a network of people who educate their children at home so I can see what's involved. This is my least favourite option as I am a freelance writer/editor and I work from home, so I'm quite worried about combining the two things. But home education is S__'s favourite option. I am also going back to talk to his original school, though S__ is refusing to come with me.
I am just very worried about S__ because he seems so depressed. Every bit of confidence has been knocked out of him. He is so unhappy. I too am unhappy and depressed and can barely drag myself out of bed in the morning. We are both completely demotivated. I did try taking him bowling to cheer him up, but it didn't work as he seemed to have lost the knack and felt even worse about himself. I need to find some ideas to boost his confidence. He has stopped looking after his pets, which is putting a real strain on me. The only thing we are managing to do every day is walk the dog.
The children's father died three and a half years ago.
S__ and I do talk, but he tends to speak in sweeping generalisations so that there's nothing I can focus on to help with, eg 'my life is over' 'my life is ruined' 'I'll never be the S__e again'. I have found a counsellor who he will speak to and he has seen her twice, but because these are confidential sessions I don't really know what's happening - although I do know she will be talking to him about his education next week. Your comments would be greatly appreciated, Thanks, S.
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Hi S.,
I think I have a good idea what’s going here. Please don’t get upset with me. I’m going to be a bit tough on you here:
Your son is playing you for a fool.
Here are some of the statements you’ve made that concern me:
… I want S__ to be happy
… I am just very worried about S__ because he seems so depressed
… Every bit of confidence has been knocked out of him
… He is so unhappy
… I did try taking him bowling to cheer him up
… I need to find some ideas to boost his confidence
…The children's father died three and a half years ago
All the above tells me that you are really feeling sorry for your son. And your son is “milking” your sympathy for everything it’s worth.
Please do not misunderstand. I’m not being indifferent here. I definitely understand that there is some real hurt and fear going on inside your son. And I do not want to minimize the loss of his father. But I also know how son’s can manipulate their mothers when they’re feeling down. I did it too.
His statements verify this (in my mind anyway). When he says things like …'my life is over' …'my life is ruined' …'I'll never be the same again’ ...he is trying to get you to feel sorry for him – and it’s working!
Why would he do that? What could possibly be the motivation?
Well, he gets out of doing chores …he gets out of attending school …he gets out of facing his fears (i.e., going back to that school and standing up to the bullies) …and he gets a bunch of attention from you – his parent.
Having said this, I think you need to do some serious soul-searching regarding whether you are helping your son with your approach to this matter – or hurting him.
I believe your sympathy comes from a well-intentioned, loving heart, but it’s resulting in a lot of over-indulgent parenting. (I trust that you know the dangers of that parenting style.)
