Help me please before I go insane...

"Hi Mark, I had emailed you earlier in the year about my 17 year old. I am writing again to seek your advice. I have read the email from the "Sad Mom" under the Empty Nest Syndrome tab linked to your email and I must say I am suffering almost the same fate now as her. My 17 year old daughter has now moved out of home to be with her father whom she hasn’t had much time for in recent times due to them not seeing eye to eye. Now that she has moved in with him it seems that he is giving in to her every demand.

My daughter is now seeing an 18 year old who comes from a broken home, whose father was abusive. This guy jumps from house to house after being kicked out of his fathers house, he moves to his mothers, then he will get kicked out of there so he moves in with his brother who lives with his de facto and newborn child and that’s where he lives at the moment. He just so happens to live just around the corner from where my daughter’s father is living so it is very convenient for her to have sleepovers (which happen regularly). I am fearful of never getting her back home in a stable household where she can be nurtured and gotten back on track.

My and my son's relationship with her is almost non-existent with her as this guy she is seeing is one of the most un-liked (in fact hated) guys in town and he has nothing going for him. He is in debt to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars as he was involved in a car accident where he crashed into a truck (uninsured of course) and because he was at fault is in debt up to his eyeballs. No need to say that he doesn’t work and is extremely unsettled in his life. He is even talking about leaving town now and my daughter is contemplating moving with him (she has only known him for a few months and formed a relationship with him just in the last couple of weeks).

I accept your advice to sad mom about empty nest syndrome but I fail to understand how there is nothing we can do to make them understand that living their life this way will be of no benefit to their future success in life. My daughter likewise has all but removed herself from my side of the family as she knows we do not agree with her behaviour. She has very little if anything to do with her other friends as well. I tried talking to her father about my concerns and he all but suggested that I just let her live her life and she will learn. I just cannot sit back and watch her destroy her and her family's life and for the sake of a trashy guy that will most likely hurt or bludge from her for the rest of her life.


Help me please before I go insane. I have been on antidepressants now for a week and at the moment don’t even feel like seeing my daughter as every time I do she "just makes me sick to the stomach". I struggle to get through each day and am losing weight because I can’t eat. I am not the kind of mum that won’t let go and if this guy had anything going for him I wouldn’t have a problem with it. I am sorry this message is so disjointed but I am just not thinking too straight and am struggling also to keep my working life in order. Regards ~ M.D."


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Hi M.D,

I know how you feel …and when I felt this way as a young parent, I distracted myself.

I distracted myself by focusing on all that was going right rather than on that was going wrong …by focusing on my blessings rather than my “curses” (which there is no such thing) …by regularly talking about my parenting struggles with someone I trusted …by accepting help and support when it was offered …by reminding myself that my responses are normal responses to a stressful situation …by giving myself permission to do whatever I needed to do to take care of myself.

Your body and mind will tell you what you need to do -- your job is to listen to them.

Your daughter will gain experience out in the real world – and experience is a great teacher (a much better teacher than you will be at this point …no offense).

Mark


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"Mark, Thanks for your response Mark and the comments are very much appreciated. Whilst I understand that it is important to learn from your own experiences my major concern is that at this point in her life, she is not thinking clearly at all and that she will make a mistake that she will have to live with for the rest of her life, ie lose her job because of her behaviour (I am told by her work mates that she is not herself at work), falling pregnant, or being the breadwinner and running around after this no-hoping guy. I know what you are saying is true and that no matter how much I object to her seeing him and the other less than nice friends she is getting about with she will only move further and further away but I struggle to sit back and pretend that everything is OK."

 

==> Effective Disciplinary Techniques for Defiant Teens and Preteens 

I am so deeply worried that my sons will be somehow 'compelled' to try the tonne of bricks...

Hello Mark…

It is just after 2:30am and I am having difficulty sleeping, so perhaps sharing a few of my worrisome thoughts with you as my remote 'sounding board' may help.

I am so very concerned for our future. When push comes to shove, my sons seem to embrace failure and punishment. Let me try to piece things together to try to explain my deep concerns.

My husband had taken 4 months long service leave as the stress of our son's behaviours were taking their toll. Last month we went together as a family to a counsellor that is part of his employment benefits as he was preparing to return to work. Although somewhat better this year (no disappearing overnight or longer on the weekends, no demands for alcohol), we needed to address our son's behaviours that were building into more trouble at home (argumentative, unreasonable behaviours) and poor school performance (lateness, truancy among some other things related to poor decision making). It took my husband to repeatedly beg the boys to come to that counselling session. In the end they agreed, but ensured that we were late for the appointment. The counsellor set us a small challenge as a start, to manage the chronic lateness, just in the mornings getting ready for the day.

We agreed that our sons could wake themselves and get up later, at 8am rather than the 7:30am that we preferred, and we were to give the message of 'Your breakfast is on the table' if either were not up by 8:15am. I also agreed that I would cook their breakfast porridge and make their lunches. Our sons agreed that they would get themselves up, dress, make their beds, feed their pets, and be ready to leave between 8:45am and 8:48am. If they both were ready, then we agreed that they would be given use of the car to go to College. If they were not ready, at 9:50am I would drive them to College. The boys concerns were that I am always upset. I made it clear that I would definitely still be disappointed and upset if they succeeded in doing what they needed to do to get use of the car (what they wanted) and at the same time failed in lots of other areas of their lives (which is what they have tended to do). Well, the boys made a genuine effort for 4 days before challenging their part of the agreement, in escalating terms. My husband returned to work under these deteriorating conditions at home, which was what we had declared at the counselling session was the situation we were trying to avoid.

We continued with the plan and the problems escalated with reports of unexplained latenesses or entire absences from some classes and some other infractions with their friends. (Silly things - like one of my sons chose to ride on the roads with a fellow student, as a pillion passenger on a motorbike. This friend was on L-Plates. My son was without a helmet.)

All the while our sons insisted that they were doing better and we rewarded a 'seem to be doing better' stage with an OK to stay at home one weekend whilst we went on a working bee at our ski pad 2.5 hours drive away. The boys were left from Saturday morning to Sunday evening when my husband returned. I stayed on alone at the unit as there was more painting to be done. Ken was to return on Wednesday to pick me up. Instead, I received a phone call from him asking if the police had contacted me.

This was in relation to the criminal act that I mentioned last email. On the Monday, the boys had the use of the car as they were on time and they successfully took themselves to a pre-employment session after school (they had applied to work as labourers in the Cirque du Soleil pack down). Ken allowed them to use their computers unsupervised in their rooms that evening (to do school assignments and study for upcoming end of term tests). The Tuesday morning our sons were again ready on time and were given use of the car to go to College. Ken noticed that one had an extra bag with them. He assumed that this was for their gym gear (the boys do weight training 4 days per week). The Tuesday evening when Ken phoned, he said that everything was fine. He had no idea of what had taken place that day. This is usual. He is a wonderful, gentle man and does not recognise when trouble is looming.

This is what subsequently came to light...

On Monday evening our sons had been in contact by computer private chat (MSN) with a friend from high school that they do the gym work with. They would have missed their work out together due to the pre-employment session that their friend did not attend. During this chat session, these three young men planned to commit a robbery. It appears that their friend wanted a laptop and my sons wanted money to buy clothes. The mystery is that their friend just this year began receiving money from the government (youth allowance) and my sons, as I had said, had just applied for work to earn money that they could have put some of it towards the extra cost of the clothes that they wanted. Why on earth would they plan destroy this immediately after putting such effort in to secure a desirable casual labouring job?

It is totally beyond my comprehension, and this is the pattern of behaviour that really concerns me.

At a meeting with the Deputy Principal and School Counsellor at the College at the end of term (two weeks ago), the DP encouraged my sons to get up at 7am and to seek employment. After the holidays, if they wanted to return to College, then they could do so under a strictly controlled contract. In my attempts to get them working towards an earlier rise, I had them getting up at around 8am to start working in the garden by 9am, they responded by getting up later and later - after 10, after 11, after 11:30am (which has varied up and down).

We have seen the police this evening and my sons have signed forms to participate in Restorative Justice Conferencing. The Constable made it clear to my sons that if they demonstrate remorse, understand the impact on the victim, and perform the required community service outcomes of this conferencing, then the police may choose to end the matter there. Otherwise, they will be charged and be required to go to court and perhaps Juvenile Detention. The Constable also made it clear that he did not wish to see them before him in this way again as he would 'come down on them like a tonne of bricks'.

Mark, I am so deeply worried that my sons will be somehow 'compelled' to try the tonne of bricks.

You said in your reply email that I need to get a good diagnosis if there is bipolar tendencies. I don't know of any way that I could possibly get either of them to attend another session with anyone (school counsellor, Ken's work counsellor, nor a psychiatrist). Also, I am very uncomfortable with the prospect of using strong medications (and the latest reports on ADHD medicating lend some credence to my concerns in that area). Instead, I have been building the idea of us all seeing a new family doctor (as our own wonderful, trusted, female family doctor we have attended since the boys were born retired in March). The doctor that I would like us to see is a man and a Naturopathic GP. I plan to make the appointments tomorrow, and hopefully we won't have to wait too many weeks to get in.

As to how I have gone this weekend? I was at the end of my rope with one son who had been unreasonable all day Friday, so eventually phoned to ask Ken to come home early. That was 4pm. On Saturday we test drove a vehicle that we are considering for the Franchise business. My other son was with me and became unreasonable in the car whilst I was driving. I was able to dilute the behaviour to a tolerable level. Tonight I gave warning then took the remote and aerial cable from the TV. If they chose to go to bed then they could have the TV back tomorrow, if not it would be 3 days. I did not respond to their arguments, calmly restated the request and consequences for their choices and left them to it. I asked my husband to do a follow up 5 minutes later as I was all done in. Happily, concurrently, I heard the boys going to the kitchen to make the last protein drink getting ready for bed.

I am exhausted. I will send this now. I would very much appreciate your wise insights and strategies to help me through this. I say me, as it was after my husband had turned out the light tonight that I insisted he finish reading the printed material on your program. He doesn't deliberately undermine, but undermine he has a tendency to do. Hopefully he can gain a better understanding with your step by step program so that we can achieve a more consistent approach for our sons. There is just too much on our plates to deal with. Our problems seem insurmountable, our difficult path appears unalterable, but there is much love in our home and that is the glue that binds us.

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Hi M.,

It would be best for you to allow your sons to experience painful emotions associated with their poor choices ...I can see that you are spending a lot of time and energy trying to "save" them from themselves. This, along with counseling, is a traditional parenting strategy that will continue to make a bad problem worse.

If they choose not to follow through with the expectations (i.e., perform the required community service outcomes of this conferencing), then they will choose the consequence. Please do not get in the way of letting this wonderful opportunity for them to gain experience/wisdom take it's course.

I'm concerned that you are taking on too much responsibility. If they do not want to go to a doc for an eval ...and if they choose not to take appropriate meds, then you have to begin the business of taking care of yourself in the form of "letting go." Otherwise, YOU will become ill -- both physically and emotionally.

Mark

www.MyOutOfControlTeens.com


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Mark,

Yes, you are absolutely right. It happened to my mother, who eventually succumbed to terminal cancer. I have started taking care of myself as of yesterday after a long conversation with a dear wise long time (older) friend. I am not so concerned with the imminent restorative justice, but more the longer term. I won't go that road. I have appointments with the new doctor for my husband and sons as well, but me first.

Thanks Mark. I can turn now and feel that I can navigate a better course.

M.

It sounds like she is not even attending the math class...

Hi Mark,

I do have an issue to ask you about. I have custody of my 17 year old granddaughter and school is definitely a challenge with her. M___ has been with me for just under 2 years. She is from __________ and after 2 years of grade 9 had only 4 credits. As of February 2007 she had 13 1/2 high school credits and requires 30 credits to graduate. Her problem is socializing, skipping and not handing in her homework - so of course she does not do well in school.

After talking with the vice principal at the school we decided to move her to a __________ School where she does not attend school for the entire day. She only goes to school for 2 hours per week per course and she does her homework on her own. This often works for students who have problems in the regular school stream. When we moved her to the Alternative school, I talked with her and told her this was her last chance to try and get a high school education, which is very important for her future.

I have been trying to find out how she is doing, but don't get much information. The school is not very responsive to parents because they treat the student as an adult, responsible for their education. Recently the vice principal has indicated in a voice mail she will talk with me - but we have not yet managed to connect.

M___ has indicated everything is fine and that she does not get a report card in this school. She has told me she has an 85 average and everything is great. Unfortunately, I have heard this story before so am a little cautious. When the actual marks come in she is often failing or barely making a passing grade.

Yesterday, I was gathering some laundry in her bathroom and found the report card sitting on the counter. M___ gets upset if she thinks I read her papers so I can't let on I have seen the report card.

The good news is that she has passed her 1/2 credit Civics course with a 61. The other 3 are full credit courses and so far she has 77 on her parenting course and 76 on her Sociology course - excellent for her but ...both teachers indicate that this mark is for unit 2 or 3 out of 10 and that she is not handing in her home work consistently. At this stage she should be on about unit 5. On her math course she has a 45 and the teacher has commented that she should attend school on a more regular basis and do her homework. So it sounds like she is not even attending the math class.

I'd appreciate some advise on what to do.


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Hi,

All of my adolescent clients are either in alternative school or working on their GED. None of them attend class with the frequency that teachers find optimal. But these kids get the work done eventually. Continue to do what you’ve been doing (i.e., stay out of it …schoolwork is your granddaughter’s job).

Mark

www.MyOutOfControlTeen.com

Empty Nest Syndrome


Hi Mark,

I emailed you in Jan 07 about my situation concerning my 17 yr old daughter. Now, I am looking for your advice again.

My daughter moved out of our home, not with our consent, back in January. She moved into her boyfriend's house (his mom's house) but they have since moved into their own apartment. She only met this guy over Christmas, and he is on a methodone treatment plan for his oxycotin addiction. He is 21. She is in her last year of high school, but may not even graduate now as she very rarely attends school anymore. Her relationship with her two sisters has deteriorated big time, however it doesn't seem to bother her in the least. As well, my relationship with my daughter has suffered more than I can describe. Her relationship with her Dad is almost non-existent.

The last three months for me have been hell. My emotions are all over the map. She should have been at her grade 12 prom last night, such a memorable event in a young girl's life …instead she was in some shabby apartment with her boyfriend. She has totally distanced herself from her friends, now he seems to have become her world. Before she met him, she was always with her friends. I am so worried about her.

So far, my daughter has learned nothing from this experience. She sees no problem with her actions, she has not matured at all. She has shown no guilt or sorrow for leaving our home in the manner she did. (She told everyone that her parents kicked her out, and painted this picture of 2 horrible parents). When I showed up at her boyfriend's mothers house, she told me to go F myself. Never, has she spoken to me like that in all her life. She has not apologized for that either.

Anyhow, I am beginning to ramble. It is just that my life has been turned inside out since this happened. I am so heartbroken and it isn't getting any easier. I thought by now it should. My marriage is suffering for this too. My husband is so calm about it all, so accepting of it. He figures she made her choice, she is stupid, and one day will realize it. He feels he did nothing wrong, and there is nothing he can do about it. (Not that he even tries.) He is not loosing any sleep over this mess. To me, that is not normal. I don't think that my daughter has any idea what this has done to her family, the hurt she has caused me and other family members. If she does, she must not care because she seems very content, not a care in the world. No clue about how dangerous it is to be involved with a recovering addict, he doesn't work, he has no car, nothing going for him. Her forms from her education fund arrived last week …we have been putting away a little money each month for her post secondary education. That hurt too, she should be home filling out her university application. Instead, she has thrown away all that we have to offer to her.

I just don't know how to be acting anymore. Am I supposed to be supportive to my daughter? I have never been to her apartment. Now they are moving to another apartment next week, she asked me to help her decorate. I said no. I have been supportive in other ways, but I just can't accept her relationship with him. I can't stand the sight of him. How do I cope with all of this, I feel like I am drowning. Work is stressful lately …the project I am working on is a nightmare. My marriage has major problems. My father just got diagnosed with cancer. 2007 is turning into a hellish year so far. I am loosing my daughter, we are growing further apart, and she could care less. Meanwhile, I am dying inside. How do I deal with this anymore?

Thanks for listening. I am sorry for rambling.

Sad Mom

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Uh oh …the dreaded Empty Nest Syndrome.

Empty Nest Syndrome refers to feelings of depression, sadness, and/or grief experienced by parents and caregivers after children come of age and leave their childhood homes. Women are more likely than men to be affected; often, when the nest is emptying, mothers are going through other significant life events as well, such as menopause or caring for elderly parents.

Feelings of sadness are normal at this time. It is also normal to spend time in the absent child's bedroom to feel closer to him or her. If you feel that your useful life has ended, or if you are crying excessively or are so sad that you don't want to see friends or go to work, you should consider seeking professional help.

Parents gain the greatest satisfaction from the transition to an empty nest when they have developed and maintained good relations with their children as they were growing up. Extreme hostility, conflict, or detachment in parent-child relations may reduce parental support when it is most needed by children during early adulthood.

When a child's departure unleashes overwhelming sadness, treatment is definitely needed. You may need antidepressants, and you almost certainly could use some counseling to get your feelings into perspective. Meanwhile, look to your friends for support and be kind to yourself.

Time and energy that you directed toward your child can now be spent on different areas of your life. This might be an opportune time to explore or return to hobbies, leisure activities or career pursuits.

This also marks a time to adjust to your new role in your child's life as well as changes in your identity as a parent. Your relationship with your child may become more peer-like, and you will have to get used to the fact that your child is an adult now and no longer in need of services.

In anticipation of your younger children eventually leaving home, prepare for a totally empty nest NOW. Develop friendships, hobbies, career, and educational opportunities. Make plans with the family while everyone is still under the same roof, so you don't regret lost opportunities (e.g., family vacations, long talks, take time off from work). And make specific plans for the extra money, time, and space that will become available when children are no longer dependent on you and living at home.

Mark


Acknowledgment & Praise


I've tried the "catch your kid in the act of doing something right" business, but it doesn't really seem to work ...my son just looks at me like I'm stupid. Any suggestions?

 

ANSWER:

 

Yes... A few points here: The My Out-of-Control Teen eBook does not contain a set of "one-size-fits-all" parenting strategies. I rely on the parent to be smart enough to "fine-tune" the strategies according to their specific situation (this is why the parent-coaching piece is so important; you'll need some clarification and revision on some things from time to time). 

 

Some kids have very low self-esteem, and so a daily dose of positive strokes in the form of acknowledgment and praise is prescribed. Some kids have fairly high self-esteem, and as such, do not need a lot of strokes. In fact, too many stokes for this kid will be annoying to him/her. Use your good judgment here -- be creative. 

 

As a side note, here are the two mistakes I see parents make on this subject of rewarding the kid for good behavior in the form of acknowledgment and praise: 

 

1. The parent is not sincere when she praises, thus the kid picks up on the words used (and the body language behind the words) and knows that the parent in NOT really impressed with the kid's behavior, the parent is simply SAYING she is impressed. 

 

2. The parent praises in a sarcastic fashion (usually due to some unresolved resentment toward her kid; she may not even realize that her praise is being perceived as an insult by the kid). In this case, the praise is not a reward, rather it is a form of criticism. 

 

So, if parents praise TOO MUCH, or the praise is dishonest or sarcastic, they're just pissin' in the wind. In these cases, it would be better to say nothing. 

 

Mark 

The keys just came up missing...

Hi J., I’ve answered where you see these arrows: >>>>>>>>>>

 

Mark, Have just received your e-book and went through it. I am going to go through it a few more times to make sure I "get it right". I do have some questions for you I'm hoping you can answer. 1. How do you handle a situation where you believe your teen took something (the extra set of car keys for the car he will drive when he shows he is more trustworthy and responsible) but cannot prove it as there are other children in the house (19 yrs old with a car of his own and a 9 yr old) and the keys just came up missing. 

 

>>>>>>>>>> If you have no evidence re: who took the keys, then you shouldn’t accuse anyone.  

>>>>>>>>>> I know this may be hard for you to hear, but go to your local auto repair shop and have them put in a new ignition switch in the vehicle in question. You will then receive a new set of car keys that you should keep with you at all times. It will cost you about $100 to get a new switch, but it will be well worth the expense. Think about how much it will cost you if your son takes a “joy-ride” and has an accident (he probably does have the keys by the way, and you can’t monitor his “joy-riding” capabilities 24/7). 

 

 >>>>>>>>>> Round-up all the other keys to any other items that your kids are not to have access to while you’re at it. 

 

2. Can your method work when the other parent (2 parent family, 3 boys) will not follow your program (or anything else) and will yell, ground "for a month" and tell him to "just leave and don't come back" when they are fighting? I will discipline (usually with the 3 day grounding), but they will get into an argument and the Dad says to leave. Then son gets a gleeful look on his face and is gone (on his bike and usually to his girlfriends). How do you start over, continue with the punishment when he gets the go ahead from his Dad? It often feels as I am in the middle trying to referee this situation.  

 

>>>>>>>>>> A weaker plan supported by both parents is much better than a stronger plan supported by only one. 

 

3. This child has a girlfriend (also 16--same school) of over 1 yr that he is quite serious about, so much so that he has almost excluded any male friends. He wants to talk with her/text her and be with her almost 24/7. He does have a job and is involved with sports, and does pretty well in school--3 B, 2 A, 1C). We do have rules at our house. The girlfriend's parents think pretty much anything is OK. I have accepted this girl and am pretty OK with it but we do have many conflicts about the lack of rules at her house, and different ones at home. What is the best approach to this that will show our son that he still must follow and respect us and our rules?  

 

>>>>>>>>>> This is one of those very general questions that would take a book to answer adequately …fortunately, you got the ebook.

 

Mark 


==> My Out-of-Control Teen: Help for Parents

He puts his head down on the desk and pretends to go to sleep...


Greetings, Mark!

Your publications and web site have proven to be invaluable sources of information; thanks!

I am writing to seek assistance with my almost 17 year male child.

He has been diagnosed with ADHD with some depression symptoms as well. He is currently on Prozac and Straterra. The Prozac is for the depression and the Straterra is for focusing issues at school. We have noticed behavioral changes on those days when he forgets to take the meds (and it is a mild hassle to remind him every day).

He is currently in the 10th grade for the second time, and may have to repeat again because of failing grades. He is very well versed in creating rap songs using the computer and 'beats', and spends most of his waking hours working on these projects. Which leads to his poor performance in school.

We never see him doing homework at home - his response when asked about any is that he did it already. He refuses to write down assignments, and is almost always late in completing whatever assignments he does work on. He is constantly tardy to classes anywhere from 1 to 15 minutes on a regular basis. In some classes, he puts his head down on the desk and pretends to (or actually does) go to sleep.

He is being seen by a psychological social worker on a weekly basis, whom we have spoken to several times unbeknownst to him (no violations of client privileges have occurred during these conversations).

He is adopted, but he has been with us since he was two days old.

We are trying to stress the importance of education to him (without becoming overbearing about it), but he has a real passive motivation towards education. He has delusions (our feeling) about becoming famous in the rap world, which we temper as much as we can with a dose of reality without telling him to give up something that he really enjoys doing.

He has some anger management issues, but is not extremely "out of control" when compared to some of the stories identified in your publications. He has had two brushes with the law - both misdemeanors, and will be completing probation in September. Part of his probation agreement is performing at an adequate level in school.

I'd like to hear your thoughts about this situation; feel free to request additional information if you need it.

Thanks.

D.B.

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Hi D.,

I’m not trying to take a short-cut here, but as you may know, my stance is the more responsibility YOU take for your son’s academic performance, the less HE will take.

I’m not accusing you of the following, but I often find that when I provide my recommendation on poor academic performance (which can be read on the link below), parents email me again with the same question hoping for a different answer. Unfortunately for them, they get the same answer.

CLICK HERE to go to “Email From Exasperated Parents” and locate the post that reads:

"My son brings home straight F's on his report cards. I ground him for the entire grading period, but he continues to fail in nearly all subjects. I know my son is a bright kid and can do the work when he wants to. What can I do to motivate him?" -- B. R.

Mark

How do I get my over-achieving daughter to slow down?

"I have taken the quiz and surprisingly found that I was a severely over indulgent parent. This angers me because I didn't think...