Thank you for sending me information on ODD and CD. It is very interesting, and quite scary to read as a parent, as I see many signs in my 13 year old son.
After years of frustration in school (and difficulties with behavior at home), I finally broke down about two years ago (after an absolute last resort) and my son was put on Concerta. It seemed to help with his concentration, but he didn't like the feeling it gave him and it became a battle for him to take his meds towards the end of last year. He doesn't want to take it this year either. It was used strictly for school - never weekends or school holidays. I told him that this would have to be re-examined again once school starts (tomorrow).
Last year, I provided the junior high school my son attended with forms to complete to have him tested at a clinic that deals exclusively with behavioral problems. This was after doing much research. The school's recommendation was to have the testing done at the school first (funding for special needs??). I just now received a copy of the report and I am concerned with some of the comments in the report which are not accurate, and some embellished information, all of which are on his permanent school record. After a one hour consultation with my son, and review of forms completed by myself, his teacher, and a review of his school file, the psychologist diagnosed him as ADHD (no surprise), severe ODD (the severe was a surprise) and CD (very much a surprise but not many symptoms). Would this allow for an accurate assessment? There were some suggestions for improvements, although in my view, rather vague ones.
My son is funny, athletic (has played hockey competitively since age 4 always at high levels) social (sometimes too much so!), loving, sincere and gentle (especially to animals and the elderly and to anyone he loves that he feels he hurt), and has a smile that could melt any heart. He can also be difficult, demanding, defiant, impulsive and frustrating. He struggles with academics in school - not because he's not bright, but because he gets behind and frustrated. I want to do whatever I can to help him be the successful person that I know he can be.
I am reading your Ebook and thank you so very much for the information in it. It IS making a difference. I am very concerned right now about his schooling. I have just enrolled him in grade 8 in an academy that provides an excellent hockey program. This leaves academics in the morning (when he has better concentration) and nothing but physical activities and hockey in the afternoon.
Is medication the only thing that will help an ADHD/ODD succeed? What other options do I have? Would you recommend a more thorough evaluation?
Thanks for reading this rather long request....
Very concerned mom,
```````````
Hi concerned mom,
Medication may be recommended for ADHD depending on the severity of symptoms; however, medication for ODD is not recommended. Parent Education Training [PET] is the standard course of action for ODD, and if you downloaded my eBook, you now have that training.
My Out-of-Control Teen eBook
I hope we are doing the right thing...
Mark,
I hope we are doing the right thing with our son, and feel sad about what has happened, but no guilt, which is an improvement. We were leaving for vacation (only 1 1/4hrs away) last Saturday at noon. M______ has known about this for several weeks and we even told each child they could bring a friend (M______ still had not been able to find someone to go). We had rented a house on Lake Huron. I would be able to commute to work on Wed, Thur, and Fri. Fifteen minutes before we are to leave (both cars packed up and we only need to pick up 9yr olds friend) he starts with his "I'm not going". He takes his bike and leaves. I file "runaway".
Four hours later, we leave. It was the hardest thing to do--leave without him. We did have both cars packed and it was not fair for the 9yr old and his friend (also pretty close to home). Oldest son (at home due to working) call us about 1:30am to say the bathroom window is broken open and screen is cut, and front door unlocked. We know M______has been home. About 2:40am contacted by a neighboring police department (1/2hr from home) they have our son. Stopped for speeding, out past curfew, and doesn't have a license on him (we had taken it away). It was not his vehicle, the person who owned it was in the car, and had been drinking (our son blew a 0). Car was impounded. Go get him, pick up bike where he ditched it, went home, made him pack, and left for the lake house. Get back at 7:00am.
Not very sociable in the interim. Sometimes he is playing with the dog, or the younger boys, other times he's in his room, playing PS2. Tuesday, I see he has a cell phone when he's laying down (not his--it was taken away). He denies he has one, rolls over on his stomach, and WILL NOT show me his hands, check pockets, etc. I walk away. Wednesday I'm at work, and husband sees the phone--again in the bedroom. Confronts M______, who again is denying it, husband tries to physically roll him over and son bites him in the arm. I do take a picture of this. Later Wed. M______ friend shows up. Something doesn't seem right, they keep on wanting to leave. We say no. They stay, but are clearly not happy.
Thursday, I'm at work again. Dad does let them go to a nearby mall but to be back at 3:00pm. They leave about noon. They are not back. Friend not answering cell phone. Husband does call this boy's mother who informs him, they are on their way home to have dinner at her house, then plan on attending the football game. Dad tells this mom our son is to return home immediately, friend can take him, or we will pick him up. M______ does get dropped off about 5:15-5:30pm. We are having friends up this day, and they are already here.
Friday I'm at work. They pack up to leave. He seems OK per Dad. When I get home, he will not help unload my car. He proceeds to clip fingernails at kitchen table and leaves nails all over. Won't clean them up (we leave them). Eats cookies later, I ask him to clean up the crumbs, he blows them all over the floor. Dad is taking TV out of room, and he causes Dad to trip and TV goes through the wall. He is claiming "accident" but we know better. We know he still has a phone, but he won't admit to it, or give it up.
By now, he has lost his cell phone, use of internet, use of the car, we are going to rescind his driver's license (Tuesday after the holiday), and we are changing his school (also on Tuesday). These are all things we have told him. Also he is to be financially responsible for any costs incurred--window repair, tickets, court fee, etc. We do tell him, if he completes all chores (defined to him), follows the grounding to the house, goes to/from school everyday for the next week, he would be able to go out on Friday (7 days).
Saturday, he works 9-1. Has lunch, takes a nap, does a load of laundry. Nails still on table. He gets out vacuum. He showers, put on nice clothes and cologne. We tell him he is still grounded until Friday and he is not to leave. He now is openly on the phone, making arrangements for someone to come pick him up. He is laying in his bed. I try to physically take away the phone. Husband comes to assist. M______ is resisting with everything he has. Finally he hits both of us. Dad calls 911. We are trying to keep him in the house (hallway) until police come. He gets out of the house, and is rounding the backyard when police drive up and stop him. They confiscate a phone on him (surprise surprise) and it is his girlfriends. They take him to the youth home. It is a holiday weekend and he is to be there until Tuesday. Court is at 1:30.
We are right, he has had the phone all week. He is texting threatening girlfriend's recent boyfriend (they had broken up for awhile and very recently back together) that he is going to beat him up (he did this once already in June and sent the boy (18yrs old) to the hospital). He had been planning his "escape" from the lake house all week. Now, all of a sudden, the girl's parents want to meet with us to retrieve the phone and to talk. We DO NOT want this girl involved with our son anymore. Almost all of the trouble he's been in has been related with this girl. We are considering asking the magistrate to make this part of his probation (if he gets probation).
Mark, do you think this is realistic? She does not go to the school he will be attending. He will not have a cell phone (that we know of). He has lost so much just to try to be with this girl. How much farther can this go before he "wakes up"? Also, it is hard to talk with him and even to tell him consequences when he walks away from us. I do try to tell him "I love you" every day, and find something positive. Also, I'm interested in learning more about Bi-polar that has very short mood swings. People who know about what is going on have on occasion asked us if we thought he was bi-polar. I have always heard, the highs and lows last for a week at least or more. His can last 15 minutes. He does not exhibit a "high" like I would expect either. Does this sound more like plain defiant teen behavior or more? He has been seeing a counselor for 15 months but as you suggest, I don't think it is helping as M______ is very smart, and is "playing" him and does a complete turnaround even before we are out of the parking lot.
I do feel bad about where he is and wonder what he's doing, thinking, who is around him, etc. but I'm more peaceful this time knowing I have done everything I know how to do (he was in juve. overnight in March 2006 for dom. violence--again over a phone and his girlfriend). Thanks again for the support and insight into this very difficult time in our lives and in our son's life.
J___
``````````
Hi J.,
Re: We are considering asking the magistrate to make this part of his probation (if he gets probation) …do you think this is realistic?
Unfortunately ‘NO’. You best efforts have not kept that relationship from surviving. The only way he will have no access to her is while he’s locked up (which is where he should be for now). He will have to learn -- for himself -- whether or not he wants to be with this girl. When they decide to break up, the relationship will end – and not a moment sooner.
==> The more you try to keep them apart, the more determination they will muster. This issue should be put in the “I-Have-No-Control-Over-It” file. But this doesn’t mean you should tolerate the negative-behavioral issues that surround his pursuit of this girl (e.g., having a cell phone when it’s off limits, refusing to follow orders, being disrespectful, etc.).
Re: Does this sound more like plain defiant teen behavior or more?
Not to me. It sounds like Oppositional Defiant Disorder. But you do want to rule-out Bipolar. So, if you haven’t done so already, get him in for a complete psychiatric evaluation …because if he is Bipolar, he’ll need to be on medication for the rest of his life. (If no one else in the family has Bipolar that you are aware of, he’s probably not Bipolar.)
Mark
Online Parent Support
I hope we are doing the right thing with our son, and feel sad about what has happened, but no guilt, which is an improvement. We were leaving for vacation (only 1 1/4hrs away) last Saturday at noon. M______ has known about this for several weeks and we even told each child they could bring a friend (M______ still had not been able to find someone to go). We had rented a house on Lake Huron. I would be able to commute to work on Wed, Thur, and Fri. Fifteen minutes before we are to leave (both cars packed up and we only need to pick up 9yr olds friend) he starts with his "I'm not going". He takes his bike and leaves. I file "runaway".
Four hours later, we leave. It was the hardest thing to do--leave without him. We did have both cars packed and it was not fair for the 9yr old and his friend (also pretty close to home). Oldest son (at home due to working) call us about 1:30am to say the bathroom window is broken open and screen is cut, and front door unlocked. We know M______has been home. About 2:40am contacted by a neighboring police department (1/2hr from home) they have our son. Stopped for speeding, out past curfew, and doesn't have a license on him (we had taken it away). It was not his vehicle, the person who owned it was in the car, and had been drinking (our son blew a 0). Car was impounded. Go get him, pick up bike where he ditched it, went home, made him pack, and left for the lake house. Get back at 7:00am.
Not very sociable in the interim. Sometimes he is playing with the dog, or the younger boys, other times he's in his room, playing PS2. Tuesday, I see he has a cell phone when he's laying down (not his--it was taken away). He denies he has one, rolls over on his stomach, and WILL NOT show me his hands, check pockets, etc. I walk away. Wednesday I'm at work, and husband sees the phone--again in the bedroom. Confronts M______, who again is denying it, husband tries to physically roll him over and son bites him in the arm. I do take a picture of this. Later Wed. M______ friend shows up. Something doesn't seem right, they keep on wanting to leave. We say no. They stay, but are clearly not happy.
Thursday, I'm at work again. Dad does let them go to a nearby mall but to be back at 3:00pm. They leave about noon. They are not back. Friend not answering cell phone. Husband does call this boy's mother who informs him, they are on their way home to have dinner at her house, then plan on attending the football game. Dad tells this mom our son is to return home immediately, friend can take him, or we will pick him up. M______ does get dropped off about 5:15-5:30pm. We are having friends up this day, and they are already here.
Friday I'm at work. They pack up to leave. He seems OK per Dad. When I get home, he will not help unload my car. He proceeds to clip fingernails at kitchen table and leaves nails all over. Won't clean them up (we leave them). Eats cookies later, I ask him to clean up the crumbs, he blows them all over the floor. Dad is taking TV out of room, and he causes Dad to trip and TV goes through the wall. He is claiming "accident" but we know better. We know he still has a phone, but he won't admit to it, or give it up.
By now, he has lost his cell phone, use of internet, use of the car, we are going to rescind his driver's license (Tuesday after the holiday), and we are changing his school (also on Tuesday). These are all things we have told him. Also he is to be financially responsible for any costs incurred--window repair, tickets, court fee, etc. We do tell him, if he completes all chores (defined to him), follows the grounding to the house, goes to/from school everyday for the next week, he would be able to go out on Friday (7 days).
Saturday, he works 9-1. Has lunch, takes a nap, does a load of laundry. Nails still on table. He gets out vacuum. He showers, put on nice clothes and cologne. We tell him he is still grounded until Friday and he is not to leave. He now is openly on the phone, making arrangements for someone to come pick him up. He is laying in his bed. I try to physically take away the phone. Husband comes to assist. M______ is resisting with everything he has. Finally he hits both of us. Dad calls 911. We are trying to keep him in the house (hallway) until police come. He gets out of the house, and is rounding the backyard when police drive up and stop him. They confiscate a phone on him (surprise surprise) and it is his girlfriends. They take him to the youth home. It is a holiday weekend and he is to be there until Tuesday. Court is at 1:30.
We are right, he has had the phone all week. He is texting threatening girlfriend's recent boyfriend (they had broken up for awhile and very recently back together) that he is going to beat him up (he did this once already in June and sent the boy (18yrs old) to the hospital). He had been planning his "escape" from the lake house all week. Now, all of a sudden, the girl's parents want to meet with us to retrieve the phone and to talk. We DO NOT want this girl involved with our son anymore. Almost all of the trouble he's been in has been related with this girl. We are considering asking the magistrate to make this part of his probation (if he gets probation).
Mark, do you think this is realistic? She does not go to the school he will be attending. He will not have a cell phone (that we know of). He has lost so much just to try to be with this girl. How much farther can this go before he "wakes up"? Also, it is hard to talk with him and even to tell him consequences when he walks away from us. I do try to tell him "I love you" every day, and find something positive. Also, I'm interested in learning more about Bi-polar that has very short mood swings. People who know about what is going on have on occasion asked us if we thought he was bi-polar. I have always heard, the highs and lows last for a week at least or more. His can last 15 minutes. He does not exhibit a "high" like I would expect either. Does this sound more like plain defiant teen behavior or more? He has been seeing a counselor for 15 months but as you suggest, I don't think it is helping as M______ is very smart, and is "playing" him and does a complete turnaround even before we are out of the parking lot.
I do feel bad about where he is and wonder what he's doing, thinking, who is around him, etc. but I'm more peaceful this time knowing I have done everything I know how to do (he was in juve. overnight in March 2006 for dom. violence--again over a phone and his girlfriend). Thanks again for the support and insight into this very difficult time in our lives and in our son's life.
J___
``````````
Hi J.,
Re: We are considering asking the magistrate to make this part of his probation (if he gets probation) …do you think this is realistic?
Unfortunately ‘NO’. You best efforts have not kept that relationship from surviving. The only way he will have no access to her is while he’s locked up (which is where he should be for now). He will have to learn -- for himself -- whether or not he wants to be with this girl. When they decide to break up, the relationship will end – and not a moment sooner.
==> The more you try to keep them apart, the more determination they will muster. This issue should be put in the “I-Have-No-Control-Over-It” file. But this doesn’t mean you should tolerate the negative-behavioral issues that surround his pursuit of this girl (e.g., having a cell phone when it’s off limits, refusing to follow orders, being disrespectful, etc.).
Re: Does this sound more like plain defiant teen behavior or more?
Not to me. It sounds like Oppositional Defiant Disorder. But you do want to rule-out Bipolar. So, if you haven’t done so already, get him in for a complete psychiatric evaluation …because if he is Bipolar, he’ll need to be on medication for the rest of his life. (If no one else in the family has Bipolar that you are aware of, he’s probably not Bipolar.)
Mark
Online Parent Support
Things were out of control...
Hi Mark,
Thank you for your help. I have all of the info now.
I have had your book for only a week and already I see the changes in my daughter and in myself. I had actually made her leave home for a few days before I found your website. Things were out of control for both of us. It has been a great support and I thank you for the time you have invested for us.
Cheers,
R.
Online Parent Support
Thank you for your help. I have all of the info now.
I have had your book for only a week and already I see the changes in my daughter and in myself. I had actually made her leave home for a few days before I found your website. Things were out of control for both of us. It has been a great support and I thank you for the time you have invested for us.
Cheers,
R.
Online Parent Support
The drugs are happening...
Hello Mark,
Grade 11 begins this week. The drugs are happening as we recently took our son's cell phone away and my husband and I looked through his messages last night and found drug deal info.
He already was taken out of school near the end of last year due to drug involvement. Neighbours are friends and also involved with "D" (we think mainly marijuana).
He is currently at a friends home for an overnight and we will be picking him up soon.
It is hard to know what to do next. Could you offer some concrete advice?
Thanks for your time,
K.
````````````````
Hi K.,
If you'll go to this page ==> Emails From Exasperated Parents ...you'll find my recommendation for dealing with drug abuse.
Mark
Grade 11 begins this week. The drugs are happening as we recently took our son's cell phone away and my husband and I looked through his messages last night and found drug deal info.
He already was taken out of school near the end of last year due to drug involvement. Neighbours are friends and also involved with "D" (we think mainly marijuana).
He is currently at a friends home for an overnight and we will be picking him up soon.
It is hard to know what to do next. Could you offer some concrete advice?
Thanks for your time,
K.
````````````````
Hi K.,
If you'll go to this page ==> Emails From Exasperated Parents ...you'll find my recommendation for dealing with drug abuse.
Mark
Son Drinks Hand Sanitizer
I can tell you that the 'alcohol-abuse problem' will have to be addressed first. It would be easier - and a lot less painful in the long run - to go beat your head against a brick wall than tackle multiple problems before getting the alcohol issue resolved.
If you haven't done so already, get him in to see a psychiatrist for a comprehensive psychiatric evaluation. I'm guessing that his father abused drugs and/or alcohol as well. If so, there are special 'addiction-risks' for your son (as evidenced by the bizarre sanitizer episode).
Once he gets a few months of 'clean-and-sober' time under his belt, your son can then begin to work on the other issues. And yes, he may very well need 'in-patient' treatment for awhile, but most facilities will work with you on a sliding scale (i.e., payment commensurate with your income).
Mark Hutten, M.A.
==> My Out-of-Control Teen: Help for Parents
We have a challenging teen daughter...
Mark,
We have a challenging teen daughter (17) who has been in plenty of trouble. I will spare you the laundry list. One of the issues we have currently been dealing with is alcohol consumption. My husband and I have always had a no tolerance rule on alcohol consumption for anyone under age. After all, it is the law. Our daughter tells us that most of the kids in her class drink socially at parties. She tells us that she's going to drink since it's the culture of kids her age. She also wants to be honest with us by telling us which nights she might be drinking and have us transport her and be accepting of this behavior. There are a few parents at our school who have adopted this parenting style which makes my job a little more challenging.
My gut tells me not to compromise our no tolerance rule. Can there be a middle ground/gray area on this issue or does it need to be black and white?
Any advice would be greatly appreciated Mark.
```````````
Hi D.,
If you lower your standards (via compromise), you will send a very clear message to your daughter that: (a) if you complain long enough you eventually get your way, (b) if everyone is doing it then it must be the thing to do, and (c) it’s o.k. to break the law depending on the situation. Always follow your gut.
Check out the section in the eBook [online version] entitled “Emails From Exasperated Parents” -- I address alcohol abuse there.
Don’t be fooled: There’s more going on at the party than drinking a couple harmless beers. How would I know? I was a teenager once too, you know.
Mark
Online Parent Support
ODD/Bipolar
I have a 16 year old that was diagnosed in K-5 she had ODD/ADHD. And nothing worked for her. Then 2 years ago I found out she has ODD/Bipolar instead of ADHD/ODD. The medicine has not worked for her. Her Dr. told me yesterday there is no medicine for ODD. But he has put her on a lot and nothing so far has helped her. She does not want to be told no you can not do that and she gets real mad at me and demands why. I don't know what else to do to help her. We have to drive to Amarillo for her Dr. She does not want to away from me. Do you know if there is medicine for her Bipolar/ODD that would help her. She is in 11th grade. She wants to go to collage and go into medical field. I could use all the info I can get. Thank you.
``````````````
Re: Meds for Bipolar—
The medication used most often over the years to combat a manic "high" is lithium. It is unusual to find mania without a subsequent or preceding period of depression. Lithium evens out mood swings in both directions, so that it is used not just for acute manic attacks or flare-ups of the illness, but also as an ongoing treatment of bipolar disorder.
Lithium will diminish severe manic symptoms in about 5 to 14 days, but it may be anywhere from days to several months until the condition is fully controlled. Antipsychotic medications are sometimes used in the first several days of treatment to control manic symptoms until the lithium begins to take effect. Likewise, antidepressants may be needed in addition to lithium during the depressive phase of bipolar disorder.
Not all patients with symptoms of mania benefit from lithium. Some have been found to respond to another type of medication, the anticonvulsant medications that are usually used to treat epilepsy. Carbamazepine (Tegretol) is the anticonvulsant that has been most widely used. Individuals with bipolar disorder who cycle rapidly, (changing from mania to depression and back again over the course of hours or days, rather than months) seem to respond particularly well to carbamazepine.
In 1995, the anticonvulsant divalproex sodium (Depakote) was approved by the Food and Drug Administration for manic-depressive illness. Clinical trials have shown it to have an effectiveness in controlling manic symptoms equivalent to that of lithium; it is effective in both rapid-cycling and non-rapid-cycling bipolar.
Re: Meds for ODD—
Medication for ODD is not recommended. Rather, Parent Education Training (PET) is the preferred method for dealing with this disorder. And you will get that education in my eBook: My Out-of-Control Teen.
``````````````
Re: Meds for Bipolar—
The medication used most often over the years to combat a manic "high" is lithium. It is unusual to find mania without a subsequent or preceding period of depression. Lithium evens out mood swings in both directions, so that it is used not just for acute manic attacks or flare-ups of the illness, but also as an ongoing treatment of bipolar disorder.
Lithium will diminish severe manic symptoms in about 5 to 14 days, but it may be anywhere from days to several months until the condition is fully controlled. Antipsychotic medications are sometimes used in the first several days of treatment to control manic symptoms until the lithium begins to take effect. Likewise, antidepressants may be needed in addition to lithium during the depressive phase of bipolar disorder.
Not all patients with symptoms of mania benefit from lithium. Some have been found to respond to another type of medication, the anticonvulsant medications that are usually used to treat epilepsy. Carbamazepine (Tegretol) is the anticonvulsant that has been most widely used. Individuals with bipolar disorder who cycle rapidly, (changing from mania to depression and back again over the course of hours or days, rather than months) seem to respond particularly well to carbamazepine.
In 1995, the anticonvulsant divalproex sodium (Depakote) was approved by the Food and Drug Administration for manic-depressive illness. Clinical trials have shown it to have an effectiveness in controlling manic symptoms equivalent to that of lithium; it is effective in both rapid-cycling and non-rapid-cycling bipolar.
Re: Meds for ODD—
Medication for ODD is not recommended. Rather, Parent Education Training (PET) is the preferred method for dealing with this disorder. And you will get that education in my eBook: My Out-of-Control Teen.
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