Eloquent Lines of Bullshit

Hi J.,

== > I’ve responded throughout your email below:

Hi Mark,

I have 3 questions now with one being the most pressing. That is, do you see my son is going to accept the discipline based on the information I provided?

== > Strong-willed, out-of-control children will rehabilitate themselves when they are ready, and not a minute sooner. They will change their behavior when – and only when – they choose to. The job of parents is not to get children to obey. It is to simply teach them that responsible behavior results in one sort of consequence while irresponsible behavior results in quite another. Oppositional, defiant kids refuse to accept this fundamental reality until they are forced to experience a significant degree of discomfort related to their poor choices. Discomfort comes from parents’ implementation of tough love – and unfortunately, tough love is often tougher on the parent than the child, especially if the parent has adopted an over-indulgent parenting style over the years.

Last night he acted out badly insulting, harassing, shouting at me for a half hour to force me to give him the internet to print math materials or he would not go to school today. I did not accept his reason. I re-stated my 3-day grounding discipline to him.

Please just allow me to show you what we communicated and see how you think of our situation is --very bad, have hope and out of tunnel soon?

In the evening he wrote:

"First things first, you have the phone cord. I plugged in a clock phone with that wire Friday night so wherever you put the phone is where the cord is.

Secondly, it's funny how you're still trying to ground me and powertrip by removing all means of contact from the house. That surely is the way to rekindle a relationship during the final stretch I'm here. Plus, do you really expect me to go along with it? I'm an adult, I think for myself so you're going nowhere besides backwards. Did you ever even consider how I'll do my math + english without daily internet access? Guess not. Keep trying to impose rules on me, before you know it I'm gone and regret will be on both sides. And it's not like they've worked on me, even if I don't contact my friends I'd rather walk the streets than be here."

I wrote back:

"You convinced me very clearly. I found the cord. It was my mistake and I apologize.
It is your choice to walk the streets because I can not tie you down at home. But I want to tell you that nobody would love you more than I do in the world. So, I hope that you choose to make better choices.

You will have the phones and internet back as long as you choose to accept the 3-day discipline and stay in the house the entire time. Let's say it starts 7 pm this evening. You will be ungrounded at 7 pm Wednesday if you com home straight from the school and stay in the house.

Also, next time you choose to violate the cell phone use and prevent me from reaching you, you will choose a 7-day grounding with phones and internet revoked.

You are legally an adult now, so I expect more that you choose to accept responsibilities for your choices. The house rules do not disappear, and there are more rules on your way in your life ahead such as rules from a landlord, roommates and employers. You will choose to improve and do better with your life if you choose to take responsibilities for rules."

== > Great Job! I couldn’t have said it better.

He then acted out badly. He went out 9:30 to get his math printed and said it was my fault that he had to break the grounding. On the way out he said something like: I can see that you are a little apprehensive. Don't worry, I am harmless, I won't harm you, you are my mother. Did he really mean this or would he do the opposite of this one day? He returned home before 12.

== > Of course he acted badly then. He gave you HIS best power trip (I see he is a very good at feeding you eloquent lines of bullshit), but you didn’t cave. GOOD FOR YOU.

== > Keep working the program - I think you are over a very important "hump" now.

Mark

MyOutOfControlTeen.com

Lying & Disrespect

Hi M.,

I’ve responded throughout your email below:

Thanks for your response. I guess part of the problem is that there are so many issues and I am not sure which is most pressing. Long term, the biggest problems seem to be lying and disrespect. They are the most difficult for me to deal with.

== >Please click here for info on lying: http://www.myoutofcontrolteen.com/lying.html

==> Re: disrespect. Refer to the strategy entitled “When You Want Something From Your Kid” [session #3 – online version].

When she lies, I do not always catch her. I suspect lying a lot, but even when I catch her red handed, she will manipulate and continue lying until the story is so long, I forget what we even started with. So many other times, I do not know if she is lying or not and if I can't verify, I don't feel justified in disciplining. She also lies to other people. If I hear a lie third hand and address it with her, she says it is not true. Therefore, I rarely end up disciplining what I imagine is a ton of lies that I do not catch for sure.

Disrespect is also hard because it takes on so many minor forms, like eye rolling, ignoring, etc., but also is bigger in the manipulation and lying and complete lack of respect for other peoples feelings and things. I am not sure which battle of these to pick.

In addition, I have hunted and hunted for therapists that would work on social skills with her to no avail. She sees a therapist weekly, but will not open up to any of them (we are on the 4th one). I tend to feel sorry for her because she is constantly losing a friend, fighting with someone, etc. She really does not have any peer support and has gotten so desperate that she will do anything to impress or get any type of attention from her peers. Most of her behavior issues, seem to stem from her trying to impress her peers.

==> Therapy is largely a waste of time and money. It is just another “traditional” parenting strategy that often makes a bad problem worse – because “counseling” or “therapy” feels like punishment to the child.

==> If you will read all the text [in both the online and printable versions of the eBook] as well as view all the instructional videos, you WILL be pleasantly surprised at how much positive change occurs in a fairly short time.

==> Stay the course – and stay in touch,

Mark

Online Parent Support

We thought maybe he should see that the grass is not always greener on the other side...

Mr Hutten,

I have a question to ask but I feel I should give some background material first.

My girlfriend and I have been living together for 5 years now. She has three sons two still live with us one has moved out on his own. The two living with us are 9 and 15. I have two sons one in college and a 15 year old.

The reason for purchasing your study guide is for her 15 year old. When we moved in together (my home – in case it matters) we had issues with my 15 year (at the time 11), it lasted two weeks and everything collected itself back together. The house went along fine for quite some time. I coached her sons in little league, and tried to be the best I could for them. My son is more a computer nerd so it was nice to have kids interested in sports.

Her kid’s father was never much in their lives with visits to him two to three times a year tops, and always with an issue when they would go there. Her ex is an alcoholic, and on occasion the 15 year old would catch him drunk, the younger rarely saw it.

Her 15 year old started giving us problems about a year ago. Just your typical testing the waters type of stuff. Staying out at least 15 minutes past when you told him to come home type of stuff. We did what we thought was best in grounding and applying chores. But then came the disrespect and that was the worst he would not grant us any it was like we became non people in his eyes. I was no longer able to talk with him because I started getting the “your not my father” bit. He started disrespecting his mother on almost every situation only being nice when there was something he wanted. I knew the adjustment of coming to live with me would happen but it took almost 3 years to surface, my sons happened in the first two weeks. I guess it really took me off guard when his grades dropped and I wouldn’t let him go out for spring training in football because of 2 F’s and D’s on the report card. This to me seemed to be the spiral downward. I talked with the school and wanted him to play but wanted them to help by having his coach talk with him, but that was no use as long as he had a 1.5 GPA he could play. And making A’s in P.E. and another elective he had that. But our rules differed from theirs, so we became the Bad People.

After starting your course we saw we made mistakes and were doing our best to stay on the rules you set forth. It has been a gradual thing but improvement has been seen, although not in grades but we saw hope their also. Being 15 has it motivations with driving permit and all being able to be used as a tool. Which we have told both of the 15 year olds driving is a privilege that comes with good grades and work. No work, no driving, case closed.

Well now to my question. Her sons went to their fathers after Christmas this year. When their mother went to pick them up the 15 year old said he wanted to stay and live there. We had discussed this throughout the past year or so what to do when this came up, and we thought maybe he should see that the grass is not always greener on the other side, and that rules will follow wherever he goes, and that three visit a year father will be seen as parent also (hopefully). It seemed so easy in a hypothetical situation, but now it consumes every waking thought. Did we do the right thing? What to say when he calls? What if he says he wants to come home, although I want him to I don’t want to screw up a great chance at getting on the right path by saying something stupid or sounding to proud that he just wants to come home? It hasn’t even been 24 hours yet and I am getting the acid stomach, I can’t even imagine what his mother feels. We think we did what is best for the long term but it sure seems wrong right now.

Any thoughts or direction would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You,

D.

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Hi D.,

Re: Did we do the right thing?

I believe so.

Re: What to say when he calls?

That you love and miss him.

Re: What if he says he wants to come home, although I want him to I don't want to screw up a great chance at getting on the right path by saying something stupid or sounding to proud that he just wants to come home?

You have strategies to deal with him effectively now. If he wants to come home, then you will have a golden opportunity for a fresh start. Draft a behavior contract first - and let him see it and sign-off on it. In this way, he will know up front what the expectations are.

Mark

My Out-of-Control Teen

Please provide any additional details of the content of your online parenting program...

Hello Mark,

I am a Field Officer for the Department of Child Protection in Western Australia. I was searching the internet for resources to assist some of our families with parenting teenagers and came across your web site - can you please provide any additional details of the content of your online parenting program.

Thank you

Kind Regards

Helen Ellery

Field Officer

Department for Child Protection

Roebourne

Ph: 91821208

Fax: 91821375

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Hi Helen,

Online Parent Support (OPS) is a program designed specifically for parents of strong-willed or out-of-control adolescent children. OPS provides the practical and emotional support parents need to change destructive adolescent behavior.

The straightforward, step-by-step action plans presented in the curriculum allow parents to take immediate steps toward preventing or intervening in their children's negative choices. Parents involved with OPS have the opportunity to experience success at home within the first week.

The curriculum teaches concrete prevention, identification, and intervention strategies for the most destructive of adolescent behaviors. Parents cycle through programming quickly, thus reducing the length of time that (a) effective solutions in parenting are implemented and (b) resultant positive change in adolescent behavior is experienced.

Myths and Misconceptions about Online Parent Support (OPS)--

It is only for people who do not know anything about parenting.

Being the parent of a teen has never been easy, but now it can seem like the most difficult job anyone could ever have! Times have changed and so have teens. Teens are a lot more complex than in times' past. Ask any parent and they will tell you that they could use a little help in raising their teens to be healthy and responsible adults. All parents can find something of value in OPS. It provides important communication skills and disciplinary techniques to those parents who want to (a) improve relations with their ever-changing teen, (b) decrease parent-child conflict in the home, and (c) assist in greatly reducing their child's emotional and behavioral problems.

It is only for parents who have "bad" kids.

We hear so much about bad kids on TV and the news that sometimes it seems like this whole generation of kids have gone astray. The truth is that the vast majority of today's teens are really good kids. However, even good kids and great parents can run into problems. Perfect children and perfect families only exist in movies and on television. OPS recognizes this fact and is designed to offer sound, practical help for the majority of parents and the majority of kids. We understand that families who have teens with multiple problems require more help than what they can provide. For that reason, we routinely assist families and teens to find the additional help they need.

It is mainly for parents who have young kids or babies.

If it seems like most of the books and programs on parenting deal with young kids and babies, you are right. One reason is because the early years of a child's life are the most important for establishing a sound foundation. The other reason is because working with (and writing about) young kids and babies is a whole lot easier than doing the same for teens. Think about it. Babies and young kids do not have sex. They do not get pregnant. They do not drive cars. They do not smoke, drink nor do drugs. They do not hang out with gangs. They do not have a tenth of the problems that teens face. Parents of teens need programs too, but not the same kind of programs that are meant for parents of young kids and babies. Finding a program specifically designed for parents of teens is not that easy. This is why we have developed OPS.

It is not in touch with reality.

As much as we would like to return to a better time, we can never turn back the clock. The reality is that times will never be like the 1950's. Unlike the 1950's, where two-parent households were the norm, the majority of households today are headed by a single parent. We recognize that, in the real world, the mother is usually the only parent in the home. Furthermore, we know that single moms have multiple kids to take care of and multiple responsibilities to fulfill.

It won't affirm my cultural values.

Most authors tend to write about the culture they know best. Because it is the predominant culture in this country, most authors of programs and books write about white, middle-class families. As a result, some programs may not be sensitive to the cultural differences of minority populations. In the past ten years, there has been a rapid movement towards making programs more culturally relevant to different populations. We pay attention to how different cultures raise their kids and have adapted OPS to match.

It will treat parents like they were kids in school.

Most programs are educational. Some educational programs have been adapted from school-based programs. Some educational programs are often taught by teachers (who may be more used to working with kids than with adults). These programs could cause parents to feel as if they are back in school, and that may not be a good thing. As you will learn, not all programs are educational programs, and not all programs are like classes in high school. OPS is a support program that includes online counseling. More importantly, though, OPS is designed for parents of all educational levels -- and will never make parents feel like kids.

It will take too much time to complete.

OPS consists of 4 sessions which will take parents approximately 90 minutes each session to complete. That's the good news. The bad news is that you may miss something you need if you decide not take advantage of OPS. The parenting of teens covers a wide range of attitudes, beliefs and behaviors. Parenting of teens involves far more than just picking up a few tricks. We want to cover some important communication skills and disciplinary techniques. This will take a few sessions to cover effectively. Some parents, when asked if they have ever been in a family program before, may answer, "Yes I have, and I did not find it helpful." On closer examination, one may find that these parents did not attend their program long enough to get out of it what they needed to know and to practice.

Whoever developed this program probably thinks that spanking is child abuse or tells parents they can't spank their kids.

OPS does not promote the idea that spanking is child abuse. When done in the heat of anger though, spanking often does lead to physical abuse. While spanking may be appropriate for some young kids, most counselors, social workers, and psychologists will tell you that physical punishment is not appropriate for teens. Rather than having it escalate into abuse (or, in some cases, result in retaliation by the teen), we discourage spanking as a method of discipline. Instead, we offer parents several alternatives to spanking. Sometimes, these alternatives are not as quick and easy to apply as a good whipping, but neither will they be potentially damaging to the teen physically, emotionally or psychologically.

It won't work.

The research says otherwise. Not only does OPS work, it often creates dramatic improvements in the lives of families in a few short weeks. Parenting programs have been around for fifty years, and the reason for their longevity is because they do help parents cope with their kids. Parenting is one of the most important roles we can have, yet we have to learn about it on our own without formal training. What we know about parenting comes from the direct experience with our parents as kids. Some of what worked for us when we were kids will also work for our own kids. On the other hand, some of what worked for us will not work for our kids.

OPS will provide you with a range of ideas (both new and old) that have been tested and proven to work with today's teens. Like any new skill, practice makes perfect. We encourage, but cannot control how often a parent will practice putting new skills into use. What you get out of it is what you put into it.

Mark Hutten, M.A.

JOIN Online Parent Support

When Teens Isolate In Their Bedrooms To Avoid Consequences

R___ has now isolated herself in her room. She is not contacting friends. She insists that we have ruined / are ruining her life, and she will not talk to us.

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Re: R__ has now isolated herself in her room.

A child's bedroom is as much of a privilege as her bicycle. Thus, ground her FROM her room. The grounding can be immediately lifted as soon as she shows evidence that she will work on the behavior contract.

Children always have something that they value -- even if that "something" is to simply do "nothing."

Re: She is not contacting friends. She insists that we have ruined / are ruining her life, and as we said, she will not talk to us.

Allow her to have her mad-time. Pouting takes a lot of energy. She will eventually grow tired of this "game" (and it is a game -- a game called "I'll pout and hide in my room until I get my way").

Remind her that you love her, and that she has your permission to be upset.

Mark

My Out-of-Control Teen

When Teens Steal From Parents

What do I do with my 16-year-old son who continues to steal things from our home. He has stolen jewelry and pawned it. Of course he always denies that he did it, but I have found pieces of my jewelry hidden in his room. He has been caught stealing from cars. I told him we were going to start over this year and no longer bring up what he did in the past, thinking he has changed, but now there is one hundred dollars missing from my daughter which was a Christmas gift. Of course he denies taking it, but refused to show me his wallet. Any suggestions of how to deal with this and get past the fact I don't believe anything my son says?

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Hi M.,

Give him a warning that - the next time something comes up missing - the police will be called and you will file theft charges (this assumes that you will have some evidence that it was, in fact, your son who took the item in question). If he steals and you refuse to get authorities involved - it shows he can do it with impunity.

I don't know where you are located, but in some states there is something that is called a "youth at risk petition". This is where you ask the court to step in and help you with your out of control teen. He is not arrested, but has accountability with the court. If he messes up then he will go to detention.

Emptying his room of everything but necessities is also an option.

Taking his door off as well is an option. Thus, he has no place to hide the things he steals.

If he gets an allowance take part of it to pay for the stolen items.

It is going to depend on how far you are willing to take it. If you are not willing to take discipline to the next level you can expect more of the same from him.

Lastly, the real valuable things should probably be kept under lock-and-key from this point on.

Mark Hutten, M.A.

My Out-of-Control Teen: Help for Parents

Teen Abuses Cell Phone Privileges

Hi J.,

==> I've responded throughout your email below:

Dear Mark,

Sorry about my questions about chores. I jumped the gun after watching your video and assumed that was the same as covered in the written materials without reading through it.

I had a peaceful Christmas without problems with my son over the present concern I had.

==> Wonderful.

My son had shoved the snow to have earned a wireless keyboard with a mouse for only $39. He seemed to be okay with it. He worked, earned it and I spent less money because it was boxing day price. Wow, what a difference. I praised him after each shoving. At the last shoving after we placed the order online, he still went out to shove the snow and even told me that he did it the way I wanted him to do.

Further, I only got him necessity for the Christmas present which was offering him to shop for some clothes. And I even attached a condition to it and that was he needed to take off the remaining foul language in his room before we went shopping. He wasn't happy at all, but did not make a fight about it. He had tears in his eyes, said that wasn't what he wanted for presents and went into his room for a few hours on the Christmas day. He came out in the afternoon and joined the Turkey dinner with my friend's families over. He was polite to everyone. I then discovered that he erased all of the foul language! Wow!! I had tried everything to get him to remove it and even told him to find his own place to live, but nothing had made him do that.

==> These are good improvements!

With all the good stuff going on, unfortunately I am in a challenge right now!!

My son refused the 1-day consequence over leaving his cell phone with me for one day. Now I am issuing the 3-day discipline by taking the internet and his cell phone away. The crime is that my son ignores my request to keep his phone on for me to call him and to answer my calls. I explained to him that I need to be able to get hold of him on his cell phone when I needed to, but he won't listen. I feel this is reasonable parental request, am I correct?

==> Exactly ...you are right on track here.

The challenge now is that my son has refused any disciplines in the past. This time he did not leave his phone with me yesterday AND did not come home last night (no show this morning when I left for work). For your info., not coming home on his own will happened in the past. I made the decision this morning to start the 3-day consequence anyway because I didn't know what else to do with the curve ball he threw at me by not coming home. I took the modem and the house phone with me and I am about to call the cell phone company to report the loss of his phone because this is the only way to disconnect it temporally. I did the research before hand.

Where do I go from here on and what can I expect to happen from him?

==> First of all, I have to say that you have clearly studied that material. I am really impressed with how you handled this situation.


Let him know that the 3-day-discipline starts as soon as he returns home. Also, if you can contact him, tell him that -- if he does not return home immediately -- you will call police and file a "run away" complaint against him.

Do I tell him to come home by the curfew for 3 days in a row in order to get off the 3-day discipline?

==> No. He should be grounded (in the house) for those 3 days.

What else can I offer him to get off? It must have other options because curfew has been problem for long time.

I predict he won't comply by 3 days. So, do I tell him until he does the whatever option, he then can get off it?

==> You may need to involve the police and get assistance from your local juvenile probation department. If he is not going to follow house rules AND refuses to accept discipline, then you have only 2 choices really: (1) you can let him run wild (really bad choice), or (2) you can get assistance from authorities.

You might feel that I should not pick this fight right now because the Christmas has been fine with him. But I have talked with him heavily about the phone issue last a week or so, and it progresses to this point and I don't know how to delay it without sending him the wrong message that I gave up. I thought I would pick a minor issue to show him that I am able to carry through the consequences the way differently from the past. This is important for me in terms of tackling harder issue later like the curfew.

Please provide me with your advise on this challenge. Thank you.

==> Again, you are largely on track -- I can't emphasize this enough.

Be sure to read Ask The Parent Coach on the page entitled "When You Want Something From Your Kid" [session #3 - online version of the eBook]. The information there applies directly to your current situation.


Mark

My Out-of-Control Teen