Mother says: "It's time for daughter to move out!"

Dear Mark,

HELP!! LOL!!

I just wanted to talk with you about some stuff; I am hoping you can email me as soon as you can!! Thanks for always responding so promptly, it has been a world of help!

I have emailed you plenty of times about our daughter. She is now graduated …thank heavens. We told you about the party she had in our house, and all the alcohol we found. She still won’t admit to it, but we know she did. I had emailed you before about her screaming and yelling on the phone with her boyfriend in our home and how we have asked her to stop it and it is breaking rules in our house when she does this. You suggested that she was in an addictive relationship and needed to move out for her sake as well.

She has done it two more times since; the last one scared my youngest daughter so much that she called me at work. I spoke with our oldest daughter about the situation and said it is time for her to move out, that she won’t respect our wishes and or our rules. She wasn’t sorry for her behavior; she just said she was upset. In addition over the weekend she received a ticket from a police officer for a minor in possession of marijuana and seems to think that it is the problem with society, not her.

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The ticket is over a $1,000 dollars. She has a place to go and doesn’t want to go there. It is a friend of ours, who has a spare room, just blocks from the college that she will be attending in the fall. We have offered to pay 2 months rent up front, so she won’t have to worry about it right away and we have told her she has 2 weeks to go and we will move her there. She wouldn’t hear of a studio, or a dorm or a room for rent with a bunch of students and all of her friends are either staying with their parents or are going away for college. We really have no options.

She says she doesn’t want to go and that we can’t make her. I said well you won’t stick to the rules and it is just time for you to get out on your own. We offered to move her stuff.

I think she is going to make this hard and I am trying to take control of my home. She has said terrible things about us to her grandmother, who has taken her side and also thinks we are terrible for making her leave as well.

I am at my wits end. Does this sound on track? I always want to make sure I am doing the right thing.

Thanks, P.

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Hi P.,

Yes …you are definitely on track. Let me share a story that occurred last spring with one of the mother’s of Online Parent Support who was going through the same thing with her daughter. And yes…it does seem heartless at first:

Mother wanted daughter out …daughter didn’t want to leave …but she did want to basically harass her mother on a daily basis. Finally mom mustered the courage to follow my recommendation. Here’s what she did:

One day while the daughter was at summer school, mom and friends got a U-Haul truck and packed up all of the daughter’s things, moved them to a studio apartment …then to put the icing on the cake, mom confiscated her daughter’s garage door opener and changed the lock on the front door.

She had warned her daughter up front to be out of the house by a certain date, or she would take these measures. The daughter called her bluff and lost.

Long story short …this mother has kept me posted over the year. Her daughter has since moved into a larger apartment and is continuing to do fine at college. Mother and daughter have a fairly civilized relationship now (you know, absence makes the heart grow fonder kinda thing).

Mark Hutten, M.A.

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Daughter is Hanging-out with a Bad Crowd

"Can u give me some guidance? I feel my daughter is hanging out with a bad crowd and have been trying to get her to see that but have had no success. She took some of these friends to her 'one-and-only good' friend's sweet 16th birthday party without parent chaperones. These kids thought they could just go in with their cigarettes and all and thought nothing of it. These kids also drink and smoke pot. I have tried to stop her from seeing them but she continues to do so."

First of all, it sounds like you are trying to “reason with” your daughter (a traditional parenting strategy that doesn’t work – and too often makes a bad problem worse).

We, as parents of strong-willed, out of control kids, must pick our battles very carefully. Which battles do we fight? The ones in which we have an element of control. Unfortunately, you will not be able to control who your daughter associates with (unless you ground her for the entire year).

Your daughter wants to be liked, to fit in, and she worries that other kids may make fun of her if she doesn’t go along with the group. Also, she is curious to try something new that others are doing. The idea that "everyone's doing it" (whatever “it” is) may influence some kids to leave their better judgment, or common sense, behind.

We have to prepare our kids for peer pressure when they are very young (prevention strategies rather than intervention ones). Thus, when kids are younger, we want to do the following:

1. We want to develop a close relationship with our kids. Kids who have close relationships with their parents are more likely to identify with - and try to please - their parents by doing the right things, and they are much more likely to go to their parents when they are in trouble or are having problems.

2. We want to figure out the reasons our kids are giving into peer pressure and address them immediately. Kids give into peer pressure for many different reasons (e.g., lack of self-confidence or self-discipline). We should try to find the reasons and then attempt to solve the problem.

3. We want to teach our kids to say “NO”. It is tough to be the only one saying NO, but we can tell our kids they can do it. Paying attention to their own feelings and beliefs about what is right or wrong will help them do the proper thing.

These suggestions may not be a big help to you now, but I had to mention that (a) parent’s strategies for helping kids deal with peer pressure need to be implemented early, and (b) once they are teenagers, we have to “let go” and trust that we did something right while we were guiding them through their childhood and preteen years.

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Take Care of Your Mental Health: Tips for Distraught Parents of ODD Teens

"Is it normal for parents to experience a lot of depression as they deal with their oppositional defiant teenagers? My daughter's behavior is negatively affecting both my work and my marriage now. I feel like such a failure as a parent."

Yes... absolutely!

 

==> My Out-of-Control Teen: Help for Parents

Here are some of the other feelings and thoughts that occur when parents have to live with a strong-willed, out of control teenager:

• Ambivalence toward the defiant child (“I love her, but when her mindset causes her to be cruel, I also wish she'd go away.”)
• Anger and jealousy (“Her siblings resent all the attention I have to give her.”)
• Anxiety (“I’m afraid to leave her alone or hurt her feelings.”)
• Bitterness (“Why did this happen to us?”)
• Blaming self and each other (“If only I had been a better parent... If you would only listen...”)
• Concern for the future (“What's going to happen after I’m gone? Who will take care of her?)
• Denial of the severity of the issue (“This is only a phase ...it will pass”.)
• Depression (“I can't even talk about it without crying.”)
• Divorce (“It tore our family apart.”)
• Excessive searching for possible explanations (“Was it something I did?”)
• Fear (“Will she harm himself or others?”)
• Feelings of isolation (“No one understands.”)
• Inability to think or talk about anything but family issues (“All our lives revolve around her behavior-problems.”)
• Increased use of alcohol or tranquilizers (“My evening drink turned into three or four.”)
• Marital discord (“Our relationship became cold. I felt dead inside.”)
• Preoccupation with moving away (“Maybe if we lived somewhere else, things would be better.”)
• Shame and guilt (“Am I to blame? What will people think?”)
• Sleeplessness (“I've aged double time in the last 3 years.”)
• Sorrow (“I feel like I've lost my child”.)
•  Total denial of the issues (“This can't be happening in our family.”)
• Weight loss (“I've been through the mill, and it shows in my health.”)
• Withdrawal from social activities (“We don't attend family get-togethers anymore.”)

This is why it is so terribly important for us, as parents, to take care of ourselves. If we don't make a concerted effort to nurture our physical and mental health, we will become stressed to the point of ruining our immune system, which WILL result in some kind of disease process (e.g., cancer, heart disease, joint problems, etc.).

Take care of yourself before it's too late!!!

CLICK HERE for some specific ideas on taking care of yourself...

 

==> My Out-of-Control Teen: Help for Parents

Aversion Therapy = Pullin' Weeds

"I’m raising my grandson who was suspended from school (year 8) for the past week for swearing at a teacher. He was told that he would get 2 weeks next time. He now has the attitude that if I send him back to school he will see to it that he is sent home again and again. I did do the 3 days behaviour in his room and I do notice that he is getting bored, but he seems to have the attitude that boredom is better then school. So now what?!"

Click here for my response...

"She has been playing games with me....."

My daughter's status right now is - Grounded during the week until school is over (she was gone every night before). She does have her weekends.

Question: How should I go about implementing the 3 day discipline. Should I explain to her what the 3 day plan is??

>>>>>>>>>>>1. Clearly state your expectation. For example...

"Be sure to wash the dishes." "It's time for you to get the trash out." "I need you to pick up your dirty laundry."

2. If your child does what she is told to do, reward her with acknowledgment and praise.

"You did a great job of doing the dishes." "Thank you for getting to bed on time." "I appreciate that you picked up your dirty clothes."

Note: "Rewards" such as hugs, kisses, and high-fives increase your children's motivation to do what you ask them to do.

3. If your child refuses or ignores your request, then a clear warning (with your best poker face) should be given immediately in the form of a simple "If/Then" statement.

"If you choose to ignore my request, then you choose the consequence, which will be ________ " (pick the least restrictive consequence first, such as no phone privileges for one evening).

4. If the warning is ignored, then quickly follow through with the discipline.

"Because you chose to ignore my request, you also chose the consequence which is no phone tonight."

5. If your child refuses to accept the consequence ( e.g., she gets on the phone anyway), take everything away (or at least her "favorite" stuff and/or activities) and ground her for 3 days. If she has a rage-attack when she finds out she is grounded for 3 days, the 3-day-discipline does not start until she calms down. If she violates the 3-day-discipline at any point, merely re-start the 3 days rather than making it 7 days or longer.

6. Tell your child exactly she/he can do to EARN her way off discipline.

"If you do the dishes tonight and tomorrow, then you will be off discipline in 3 days." "If you get the trash out every night, you'll be off ground in 3 days."

==> My Out-of-Control Teen: Help for Parents

Also, she has been playing games with me, like calling (at work) from school asking if she could go to her friends house, telling me I could pick her up on my way home so that would only be a few hours. She told me she didn't have any homework (still getting 2 E's and 2 D's). I let her, but then she called me and said they were going with another friend, then she ended up hanging out in a park.....give an inch, take a mile! And I fell for it.

>>>>>>>>>>>> What did she do to earn this privilege (i.e., going to friend's house)?

After she called me from the park, I told her to get home and this was not the deal! She came home. She was very mouthy to me and said she is so sick of me! Then I found homework that she had and didn't do! She totally lied to me! Of course she said she "she forgot".

>>>>>>>>>>>>> Please refer to my recommendation on poor academic performance here => Click Here

Ugh, I had to leave the house because I was going to blow. I went for a short ride. When I got back she was very "nice" to me, and the homework was sitting on the table....done.

There was no more discipline given for these actions???? I did praise her for the homework being done.

So what should I do when she tries this again??? Should I warn her first?  

>>>>>YES

Should I bring up this past when she asked again. She uses this against me "you didn't ground me last time". Help me with this manipulation!

Never retract a consequence once instated ...and try to be consistent with consequences across time and across situations ( i.e., behavior "x" always gets consequence "y").

Mark Hutten, M.A.

 

==> My Out-of-Control Teen: Help for Parents

Boyfriend Problem is a Romeo and Juliet Phenomenon

Hi Mark, Here's the big question (at least for now). What to do about the boyfriend? I thought that, after the prom night fiasco, this relationship should end, but I offered the compromise of letting her see him with my supervision. Daughter says she won't accept that. If she goes off with him without my permission, should I call the police immediately, or is there any other consequence I could impose?

>>>>>>>>>>Calling the police would only be a temporary fix …but it will drive them closer together in the long run too.

I've thought of telling her that she cannot take JROTC next year if she goes off - I was against it this year because I don't think it belongs in schools and I don't want to feed her military obsession, but let her have her choice. I think that would fit the crime because she met the boyfriend and this older group that drinks and smokes pot through JROTC.

Right now our worst fights are over the boyfriend. Before she met him, the main "battles" were over the internet. I've had the pregnancy/ STD talks with her, but of course she thinks she's immune. Yesterday we had the worst one yet when I wouldn't let her go out. Ironically enough, he didn't even ask her out! (I'm praying that, like so many teenage romances, this one will die a natural death).

There will be another fight over the boyfriend today, I'm sure. One of the house rules is no dating on school nights (today would be the first day off the two weeks grounding, but if I let her date on a school night once, then she will expect that all the time).

>>>>>>>>>>> Two weeks is about 11 days too long.

>>>>>>>> You have a Romeo & Juliet phenomenon on your hands that will need to be diffused (if not, they will continue to work harder at sneaking their rendezvous behind your back).

Unfortunately, if your daughter wants to be with someone -- she'll find a way, no matter what you say or do. Parents can only guide their children in the right direction and hope for the best. If they do a good job, their daughter will make the right decision all on her own. Since you will not be successful at keeping those two apart, you must adopt a philosophy of if you can’t beat ‘em - join ‘em. In other words, they should be able to see one another within reasonable limits. For example:

· They can be together at your house only during those times that you are home and can monitor their behavior (if not, he has to leave)

· You could schedule some activity for them in which you would be a distant chaperon (e.g., take them to a shopping plaza and tell them to meet you back at the coffee shop in exactly one hour)

· Your daughter is allowed to go over to her boyfriend’s house for a designated time period (if she violates the time limit, there is a consequence that is commensurate with the “crime”)

You will not win this battle. Figure out a way for your daughter to see her boyfriend in a way that will keep her safe. This is the best you will be able to do.

I've let her go to a friend's on a school night, but these are friends I know, not this older group she wants to associate with. She doesn't see that going to a friend's on a school night is different from dating.

Re: the internet: So far all she's done to earn computer privileges is to make honor roll.

I take computer privileges for one day if she stays on it too long. The problem now is that she often has homework (and now has two research projects) for which she needs the computer, and I've given in and let her use it to get her homework done.

>>>>>>>>>>> Computer use is still a privilege, not a right. Out of control kids often use the excuse of needing to do research or homework in order to get the parent to reinstate computer privileges. You’ve just been punked – again!

What she's been doing is multitasking, doing some homework but mostly IM'ing her friends or wasting time on MySpace. So I guess I should keep her off the internet, homework or not. Should I use the 3 day grounding rather than just taking the computer for one day?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is covered in the strategy entitled “When You Want Something From Your Kid.”

==> My Out-of-Control Teen: Help for Parents

She says she doesn't care about school, but it did bother her last time when she missed honor roll for the first time (all A's and a C in Algebra II).

Re: suicide threats: Thanks for your answer; it relieves many of my worries. Next time she does it, I'll put on the "poker face" and as you said, keep an eye on it. I'm just worried about her if the boyfriend breaks up with her, as she's quite impulsive.

Re: living situation: There's a maximum one-year time frame for staying here. I'm due to finish my PhD dissertation by May (passed all exams and have most of the research done), and I'm going on the academic job market, which will mean moving to wherever I can find a tenure-track job. My mother's health is getting worse, but she says she'd rather move to a retirement home than come with me.

Actually, although my mother owns the house, she is dependent on me because she cannot maintain it or even do her own grocery shopping. For now, after daughter had the worst tantrum yet when I wouldn't let her see the boyfriend (she's still on the two weeks grounding for prom night), Grandma has agreed not to interfere when I discipline daughter. There's something of a Catch 22 - total self-reliance with a low paying full time job now could also give her the message of quitting the degree when things get difficult (full time work would mean no time for the
diss; I've tried).

>>>>>>>>>>> I agree …it is a catch 22. You have to weigh everything together and pick the lesser of the two “evils” so to speak (i.e., which course of action will be less problematic).

I used the statement you suggested - admitting I made mistakes parenting, apologizing, making amends, letting her know there will be some changes. And I also admitted I was wrong to yell back at her. Reading the ebook, I think the biggest mistake I've been making is to let the arguing escalate. I'm ashamed to admit this, but all too often I yell back at her and get extremely angry at her. For example, a few days ago when she screamed "I hate it here" I yelled back "OK, if you want to go to foster care, you can" and she cried "my family doesn't want me." We both have said very hurtful things to one another. I've apologized and own my part, but she continues to blame me for everything.

I see my major task for Week 1 as practicing the "poker face", breathing deeply, and saying "I'm not going to argue with you" no matter what she says, and enforcing the rules re: the boyfriend and internet. Does this sound about right to you?

>>>>>>>>> Here’s the bottom line: If those two want to see each other, nothing will be able to stop it. The more attention you give it, and the more intensity you provide when “things are going wrong” (i.e., the two of you fighting over this boyfriend), the more those two will bond.

Mark Hutten, M.A.

 

==> My Out-of-Control Teen: Help for Parents

Detective Mom

Mark, Thanks for the previous advice. Your methods do seem to be working. We had a beautiful FSS (thanks!). My husband thinks I'm crazy for how "lenient" he feels I'm being, but he has not interfered for 1 week! My 16 yr old son is in a relationship with a 16 yr old girl (~1 1/2 yrs now) that I feel is not good. I have not said anything negative about her in ~1 month. I have let them see each other in supervised settings. Her parents have no rules whatsoever and tell him we're wrong, but I do try to deal with this.

I would like your advice on the following: My son went out after Lacrosse practice last night (I do feel this is part of school and a GOOD thing for him as it helps keep him busy and I know where he is at) which I was OK with since he has been earning this right by following all of our rules. I did get a "bad vibe" later that he was not where he said--can't prove it. He would not answer his phone, ended up at his girlfriends (this was not OK'd, but probably would have been if I knew beforehand and parents were home), and when he called was 15 minutes late and I ended up picking him up. He still swears he went where he said.

I did tell him he was to stay home tonight after his game (lost privilege of going out) and he would not get his phone back until this evening. This was because he did not answer his phone, was late, and was not where we agreed upon. He was NOT happy, but did not argue much, only threatening me he can't call me if to pick him up earlier (game may be canceled because of predicted storm heading our way) since I took his phone. I let this pass, "not arguing".

I did check his phone text-messaging today while he is at school, and it appears he may have intended/or did have a fight with a boy over his girlfriend. He was accusing this girl of "cheating" on him and "F*****" someone else. He did end up at her house later in the evening), don't know if they made up or not, and he says he did not get there until 8:30 but his text to her indicates he was arriving at 7pm. He did have some calls to a boy whose name I don't know.

Another friend text him today with "did you fight or not?" He also did speak with another girl last night, which he has not done before (could be starting to break-up with current girlfriend?).

My husband and I would LOVE for this relationship to end. How would you handle this? Confront him about the calls/text? He would know I check his phone and I am trying to build back trust. It can't be proven (where he was or if the fight did happen). If you could guide me in what step(s) to take with this, and what the consequences should be, I would very much appreciate it!!! Thanks again!

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Re: How would you handle this? You already handled it the way you should (i.e., ground with no cell privileges).

Re: Confront him about the calls/text? If it can’t be proven (i.e., where he was or if the fight did happen), then you have nothing to gain by confronting him on this. He’ll just deny that anything happened, and you’ll go fishing for an argument.

Also, you have nothing to gain by telling him you checked his calls/text. If you do tell him, he will just find other ways to communicate with friends (or make sure everything is erased before you confiscate it again).

I’d let this be your secret. Thus, when you take away the cell in future disciplines, you’ll have a potential investigation tool (i.e., cell). Depending on the seriousness of future texts/calls, you may or may not decide to confront at that time. In the meantime, I would keep my ear to the ground regarding tension between your son and that other kid.

Great ‘undercover’ work,

Mark Hutten, M.A.

==> Parenting My Out Of Control Teen